Healthcare Plan Misinformation Video-induced Debate

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She pulled a panel out of her arse? Wouldn't that be extremely painful?

On a serious note, how could a bill that is attempting to increase health care coverage end up killing someone's grandma?

 

Usually any large or boisterous demonstration get's an official permit from the City or County. Otherwise, they'd be disturbing the peace.

Tal, I'm sorry, but your links just further re-inforce my perception that Obama has little to no idea what's in the bills and is just saying what he'd like to see, rather than what he's going to make happen. It'd be wonderful if no bureocrat or insurance company would get between me and my medical needs, but it's not going to happen that way with what's currently being proposed.

Chandos:

... Oh... She's serious, isn't she? I knew the woman was excessive, even idealistic, but that's just plain stupid. The system has never been, will never be, and cannot possibly be a free-market system. Now, sure, bureacracy may well just make things worse (it often does), but competition won't help any, either. Well, no, a public option may enforce a little reasonable competition in the system, but that's the only way I see it possible, and even that's iffy.

If it were public property, I'd agree with you 100%. But, as it's private property, I'm not so sure (from a legal standpoint).

Take another look at the kind of stuff thrown around durring the election. Much of it was a little more expressive (and graphic) than "you suck".

I think that actually came from a provision tacked onto a past (and unrelated) bill that institutionalized "benefit-based care" in Medicare and Medicaid, as opposed to "need-based care". Simply put, as I've heard it, they've adopted the UK system wherein your position on a waiting list is determined by the projected benefits society will recieve (so a 70-year-old woman would go behind a 20-year-old man, and stay behind). The idea is that these new bills would expand that system to everyone.

... F-R-E-E-D-O-M O-F S-P-E-E-C-H. It applies to all of us. And yes, that sign is still protected speech. Now I didn't say I liked it, and I'm even hoping the Church didn't actively support that position, but he's got the right to say it anyway.

Again, though, the Secret Service has more authority than the police, but even there I don't expect him to be arrested.

You're kidding, right? This is Congress we're talking about. How well did the Patriot Act preserve your freedom? Congress has a long and messy history of royally screwing up, especially if the issue is large and/or important.

 

" The man’s “tree of liberty” sign is a reference to Thomas Jefferson, who said “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” "

You will have a better chance of convincing me the next Pope will be the Ayotollah before you can convince me that is not a direct threat pointed at Obama. The Secret Service should well be in their rights to arrest him. The combination of both the gun and sign is more than enough to be considered a threat to the President. If you don't think so, I sure hope you are never in charge of security for any high-ranking official. They would be as good as dead.

 

Well, strictly speaking, I don't think (or rather hope) anyone seriously considers Obama a tyrant, and I don't think any critics consider him a patriot.

Again, I think the Secret Service should definitely remove this guy, but he shouldn't be arrested or anything.

 

Blades, that the man has a gun is not really an issue. He had a requirement to stay more than 1,000 yards away (I'd like to meet anyone who can hit a target the size of a bus with an unscoped pistol at 1,000 yards). Even the Secret Service was not going to do anything so long as he did not branish the weapon.

But I'm fairly confident if that weapon would have been removed from his holster (even at a 1,000 yards) while the President was present a Secret Service sniper would have taken the man out. I'd be willing to lay money that as the time approached for Obama to come by there was a sniper with that man in his sights, no safety on, until Obama was beyond any potential danger.

There is allowing the man to exercise his constitutional rights, and there is stupid. The Secret Service is not stupid.

 

That's unfortunate. And pretty shameful we're at that stage as a nation. I could spend months criticizing Dick Cheney, and I personally believe his tenure was disastrous for our country in many ways. But I don't doubt for a minute that he's a patriot. I've always been baffled by how some Americans think they can claim dibs on patriotism.

Do you honestly believe Barack Obama is not a patriot? I don't see how you could even want to become President without it.

 

I think a lot of people think of patriotism as putting country ahead of self (rather than the correct definition of simply loving one's country). So people who think Obama, Cheney, or Barry Bonds aren't patriots are probably using the wrong definition (well, maybe not in the case of Bonds).

 

DR, that's a big difference between the left and the right. We each see different failings in each other. The left sees the right as foolish, stupid, ignorant, hateful, and maybe greedy, but not unpatriotic. The left seems to see the right as genuinely wanting to do the right thing, but not knowing how. The right, on the other hand, usually sees the left as hateful, greedy, uncaring, unpatriotic, etc. but rarely stupid. They seem to see the left as knowing how to do things, but just not caring about doing the right thing.

Now, I don't think either side is accurate, and I think both sides are equally sad, but that seems to be the way it is.

 

Not true. I am certainly on the right. My ex and her husband are left -- and they are stupid.

 

Ah, but those are individuals, not the whole, and not the leadership.

What I mean is I don't think many on the left would call Hillary Clinton stupid, dull, or slow, just unpatriotic, evil, and 'witch'.

 

..well, I wouldn't say unpatriotic....

 

Well, for all the actions we have seen over the last few weeks, from Swat paintings and the "N" word thrown at a Rep, to the signs of Socialism and Naziism being thrown around toward our current administration, altercations taking on physical aspects, to morons showing up with pistols strapped to their leg(whether it's legal or not, it's still REALLY stupid), I truly hope it stops there. These acts, unfortunately, will shine like a beacon for someone full of hate and no brains to take it as a sign and bring it to the next level. We have enough issues at hand right now and don't need the likes of an Assassination or an attempt of one. That will only add fuel to the fire and take America somewhere that she hasn't seen in many years. I really don't want to see my little girls grow up in those types of times.

 

I don't know that it'll stop, but I certainly hope it won't go any further. I mean, at this point, the next stage is someone being hospitalized or killed!

 

Cripes, NOG. There's a filter on SP. I just used "You Suck" as an example. There aren't too many curse words that are worse that calling someone a racial slur, or a Nazi.

There already was someone hospitalized at one of those anti-health care reform protests. He was all over the news a day or two ago - him being pushed out of the hospital on a wheel chair. Ironically, he was one of the protestors, even though he has no health insurance, and he is asking for donations to pay his hospital bills. You can't make this stuff up.

 

Personally, I can't think of any. ********, ****noggin, and testicle *****ing rectal wart don't even come close. The only thing I can think of that even comes close would be the brain child of Michal Ian Black and Michael Showalter --

Spoiler

mother-****er-nigger-****-nazi-unicorn

and the word Nazi is included within that vile little expletive.

 

Hmmm... let me try something...

Hillary Rodham *******

Bill *******

George * Bush

Edward *****

Newt ********

Karl ****

Edit: Seems to work okay to me.

 

As for assassination Obama has already lived longer than I feared he would. If he comes through his presidency without any assassination attempts I would be mightily surprised.

 

You feared that he would live long? You mean you actually want him to die?

Harsh.

 

NOG,
The quote was on Timothy McVeigh's t-shirt when the police arrested him after blowing up the Murrah building in Oklahoma City and murdering 168 people. That quote and politically motivated violence on the US right do have a well known and rather recent history. There's no reason to be coy about it.

Blades is absolutely correct, that's not innocent exercise of 'Freedom of Speech' but a pretty much explicit threat. Which makes me wonder: Wasn't it you who for a while so insistently suggested that Gate's arrest was justified on grounds his right to Freedom of Speech not being unlimited?

I feel you're not being consequent on that issue.

 

Ah Splunge, I actually thought I worded that correctly. I feared he would have already been assassinated by now. You silly goose.