Ireland

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Slappy, I agree that there is no simple solution, if there is one at all, to the problems in Ireland.

You keep it part of England and what do you get, the catholics blowing up things. You give it idependence, and you get the protestants doing the same. You unit it with Eire and you get the protestants angry again. You blow it off the face of the planet and... well, most of the worl would be unhappy.

Just a quick reply considering it's off topic. It's because there are no indegenous people left. They have been wipped out by the Maroi and Europeans.

 

@ Yago i know they are united de yure but they are not united de facto and that is the main problem. These two communities (the people not their goverments) must sit down and try to understand what is their real problem between them because religion is not and they know it, but they prefer to fool themselves in order to give an idealistic sense to their grudge.
If they find their real problem then they will be able to either solve it or at least acknowledge there is nothing it can be done.
I do believe that if they really wanted they could find a solution to keep everyone happy.
So the real question is DO they WANT to live in PEACE?

 

There are many different problems. You could say the main problem is that the protestants don't want to be ruled by a group of catholics who will imposse laws against the protestants.

But then you could look at it the other way and say that the problem is the British. They stole the land off the Irish in the first place. They had laws more or less forbiding people to be catholics. They split the country in half. They are the problem.

Or you could look at it from a third angle and say that the problem is that there are people there, and people will fight no matter what.

 

That may proove interesting, regarding the embittered terrorism, of both sides: http://search.csmonitor.com/specials/terrorism/frameset.html

 

My impression was that their very much united de facto. It's not like cyprus in the way that there is a frontier(or they did they abolish it now definitively ?). There is no travel restriction at all and they go shopping in Dublin and Belfast, no matter what part of the Island there are from. That means, a lot of people do that.

I think most of the people there wouldn't love nothing more to get rid of the troubles, which not necessarily means a definitive decision of the future of the Island. Ending the troubles can be achieved independently from a definitive decision in that question, in my opinion.

But there is a another, rather small fraction of the population, which does anything possible to keep the troubles going on. And the will sabotage anything which has the air of progress.

 

What i mean as a de facto situation is that the people of Ireland catholic or protestants realize they are one nation and one nation only they are nothing more than Irish. Have they figured out that? I think not and so the unification is only de yure and not in the peoples minds which means in real life, a fact, de facto.
Are the British the problem; i don't know but i know that if the participating parties (Catholics and Protestants) decide to have peace the British won't be a problem IMHO. Again the question can change to who does not want peace?
As for Cyprus i fear that the borders still exist as well as the fact that the goverments of Turkey and Turkish Cyprus (Rauf Denktas) do not really want the unification of the island as their actions show

 

I'm really into IRISH CULTURE and music (and beer---long live Guinness), I found a song called "Irish ways and Irish laws".It sums up my opinion pretty well.

Once upon a time there was
Irish ways and Irish laws
Villages of Irish blood
Wakin' to the mornin'
Wakin' to the mornin'

Then the Vikings came around
Turned us up and turned us down
Started building boats and towns
They tried to change our livin'
They tried to change our livin'

Cromwell and his soldiers came
Started centuries of shame
But they could not make us turn
We are a river flowin'
We are a river flowin'

Again, again the soldiers came
Burnt our houses stole our grain
Shot the farmers in their fields
Workin' for a livin'
Workin for a livin'

800 years we have been down
The secret of a water sound
Has kept the spirit of a man
Above the pain descending
Above the pain descending

TODAY THE STRUGGLE CARRIES ON
I WONDER WILL I LIVE SO LONG
TO SEE THE GATES BEEN OPENED UP
TO OUR PEOPLE AND THEIR FREEDOM
TO OUR PEOPLE AND THEIR FREEDOM

Once upon a time there was
Irish ways and Irish laws
Villages of Irish blood
Wakin' to the mornin'
Wakin' to the mornin'


I think the Irish are victimes to a blood-thirsty nation that made slaves out of all the nations that surround it. If you ask me : "FIGHT THE BRITISH ARMY".

 

I agree, Guinness is really good beer. Therefore the English must die.

 

Guinness is actually a protestant beer. Dublin, a city were protestants and catholic live in peace. Just another clue that religion isn't the main point in that conflict.

[ July 25, 2003, 03:51: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

Over 90 percent of all people living in the republic of Ireland are catholic. Dublin is therefore a city that is catholic to the extreme. But Belfast has a large protestant population.And I doubt that GUINNESS is a protestant beer, cause Guinness makes great parties every year world wide ("PARTY LIKE THE IRISH" tm)to celebrate st. Patrick's day, and st. Patrick is a catholic saint.

 

There is no British Army in the Republic of Ireland.

Only 88.4% of the RoI population is Catholic. (2002 census).

I don't like Guiness - best kill me too.

 

I never said there were Brits in RoI. But there are in Belfast. And the Brits have kept a nation divided for centuries.


P.S. Do you believe, I know I do, that the catholic-protestant conflicts in Belfast and Northern Ireland have been fueled by London, cause the catholic-protestant conflict is one of the few things that is keeping the entire Irish people from obtaining freedom (and thus keeping Northern Ireland under British rule).

 

From here

A big part of the Dubliners are protestant.

 

We have soldiers on street corners in Ulster taking pot shots at the Catholic slaves you know. We try to keep them fit enough to work though so we only shoot at them to scare them and keep them in check. They are not allowed into places that "nice" people go, and have to sit at the back of the bus.

The soldiers sometimes shoot at each other and blame this on the nasty Catholics, so we can pass laws to oppress them some more, and remove any rights that any previous liberal, bleeding heart socialist government might have given them mistakenly.

In fact I'm very surprised we haven't shipped the lot of them off to Australia like the criminals they surely are.

Erm, perhaps not.

Ask yourself what you mean by "freedom". Then consider how this applies to the situation in Ulster and ALL the people in Ulster - 40% Catholic / 60% other btw.

 

I agree with Malaqai. I've seen enough Mel Gibson movies to know the British must die.

 

But the Irish in Northern-Ireland are British.

 

Kill everybody is what I always say. At least, I think that's what I say, I'm American and that's what I gather I think from reading the board. : )

 

The British have certainly not kept the nation divided for cernturies. They have kept it united under them for a long time.
But resently they have said they will step out of Ireland if that is what the people in North Ireland want. It is the Irish who have kept the nation divided for centuries.

And Yago, when is that Mel Gibson movie set? It's early last century iirc. Many things have changed since then.

 

@Laches - LOL

@BTA - How are you meant to keep a straight face to some of these posts? Sarcasm at least gives us all a laugh and hopefully urge some members to try to find out about a serious topic before they write inane statements? Here's to living in hope!

@Mel Gibson - Stop making these films that some people treat as history lessons when they are not. And for God's sake improve those dreadful accents!

Next post will be on topic I'm sure. Sorry.