Legal Brothels in the UK

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Erm...most girls overhere are prostitutes out of their own free will, how can you talk about degrading women, if it's their own free choice ? People do just about anything for a quick buck, you know that just as well as i do. There are those who snatch old ladies' purses, those who commit fraude, those who break into other people's houses, those who kill for a living, and then there's the ones who sell their bodies for money. Of all the examples i gave you, the latter is the least degrading imho.

Have you ever considered that the majority is doing it for a reason ? For example...i personally know a girl who wanted to study law, but couldn't afford the education, which is a pretty expensive education as you might know. Her parents couldn't help her out either, and with the education she had behind her, she had no hopes of getting an above average paycheck in whatever line of work she would choose.

So she became an escort girl, she started selling her body to get the money needed for her expensive education in lawschool. Within one year she had reached her goal, said goodbye to prostition, and she is now a lawyer.

So basically she screwed her way to her goal. In her case it was the only way to reach that goal. Degrading ? Maybe so, but nobody in her new environment knows her backgrounds, and she now has a well paid job.

There's more examples i could give you, but this should suffice for now.

 

But now the argument of whether doing something immoral for a good cause is justified, which is neverending.

 

We are humans...we ARE immoral. Our whole civilization is build on immorality.

 

Yes, but should we be? Is it right for everyone to be immoral? Can you justify having pleasure at others' expenses?

 

No, not really, i guess noone can. But still...it's happening all around us, every day, so we must have found a way lo live with it and not feel guilty somehow.

 

Pac man,

No offense intended, but your country seems to have reached such a low level of immorality and degradation. This is all too sick to me that this kind of stuff may pass as "normal" or as ok in the minds of you.
I hope my country does not follow your example...

 

Svy, two things. One, if there was truly no offense intended, then why did you attempt to single out a lone SPer to say that to? Two, Pac man isn't in the UK (unless I'm greatly mistaken about the location of the Netherlands), so your barb has missed its mark.

Myself, I'm of two minds about all this. Really, I would prefer that it didn't happen at all, but the sad truth is that it's going to, whether out in the open or skulking in the alleyways. I have to admit I'm torn between the idea of harsher crackdowns on everyone involved versus making sure that something which will happen anyway does so in a safer manner for all concerned. And, of course, there is always the government's stamp of disapproval (that a few other people have mentioned) to consider: heavy taxation. Making it less profitable might very well discourage the practice.
...I just don't know...

 

Or it might prevent people from registering it as a business, which is pretty much the same as keeping it illegal altogether.

Next, getting a well-paid job by means of selling one's body until enough money is raised for education is not a great or noble cause. It's bettering one's conditions by selling one's body. One way or another, the the commodity sold is body. The work done is sex. The result is, ultimately, better conditions of life. There's no great cause of any kind in that.

And what is she going to tell her future husband and children? If anything at all, actually... Isn't she ever going to be blackmailed into losing cases or else someone reveals her dark secret? Is she really going to be happy with her new life knowing the way she earned it? What is she going to think in a couple of years or decades from now?

Heh, I've even heard of prostitutes raising money for their own wedding party that way, so you won't surprise me.

[ January 22, 2006, 05:11: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

To lighten you guys up... On SNL tonight, they made a joke about this.

"In Britain, they are considering allowing legalization of small brothels, consisting of two prostitutes and a receptionist. Or as this configuration is more commonly known as: three prostitues."

 

Technically, its at your own expense

 

Prostitution has been around forever. You'll never be able to remove it, so you may as well control it and regulate it. Plus, let the government make a little money out of it. It's a win / win situation as far as I'm concerned.

 

Svyatoslav...no offense taken, you actually have a point there, but what can one do about it ? Kill all the sinners ?

On a sidenote...you DO know that 90% of all illegal prostitution in western Europe is in the hands of Serbian and Russian mobsters, don't you ? They don't seem to have a problem making money off it.

What is she going to tell her future husband and children ? How about nothing at all ? Why wake up a sleeping dog ? Do you ask your employer how he raised the money to start his company ? Cause chances are that it wasn't in a legal fashion. A lot of bigshots in the world of business are where they are now, because they wrecked other peoples lifes and careers. Are they so much better than a common prostitute ?

I really don't think so.

And how would someone be able to reveal her "dark secret" ? It's her word, the word of a lawyer, against that of a person who admits that he went to a hooker. Not much of a case if you ask me, unless he had the whole thing taped, and that is not the case. Objection overruled.

Granted, she might get regrets about the way she achieved her goal, but it will be too late by then, wouldn't it ? And besides, people who do just about anything for money, show little or no regrets at all, except maybe when it didn't work out like it was supposed to happen, and they end up broke after all. But as long as money is flowing in, few people will have second thoughts about how they got where they are now.

[ January 22, 2006, 13:22: Message edited by: Pac man ]

 

Because he is the only Dutch I know from here... And he was the one who told the story.

And? As far as I am aware, I was talking about the Netherlands...
Himself said he took no offense, which makes me believe it was your barb which has missed it's mark.
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Pac man,

I dont really know about the Serbians, but I can assure you these "Russian" mobsters as well as mafia are anything but "Russians". Maybe 5/10% of them are.

 

@Daie:

Yes, very technically. After all, Saint Paul did say that who sleeps with a hooker becomes one with a hooker and his limbs become those of a hooker. So he is a hooker.

@Pac man:

Not all illegal ways of earning money are as bad as prostitution. Besides, your comparison is flawed because marriage is not founding a joint venture. We aren't talking about how the wife raised the money she has but what she did with her body. Does anyone even have the right to keep secrets from one's spouse like that or mislead him or her in such a way that he or she will believe one to be an innocent or at least normal, average person?

Except I'm tempted to believe that many an average person does have a price, sexually...

You wish. Politicians have been forced to resign because of someone finding out their wives used to be prostitutes. That or some evidence of a "happy" youth. Politicians, then why not lawyers. The evidence isn't so hard to obtain. Clients, pimps, accidental witnesses...

So, wasn't the time for thinking about it before doing it?

Yes, but is that so admirable? Yeah, people tend to be very unhappy when they whore themselves and it doesn't pay. But this doesn't mean it's good just because so many people do it.

 

Their nationality is very often Russian and they speak Russian, what their ethnicity happens to be is completely irrelevant. The point is that Russia is doing far too little to limit this human trade that works through their country, the same goes for drug smuggling of course. Our border guards can do only so much if Russia does not care the slightest what's transported through their borders.

 

It is not irrelevant to me. The fact is I won't sit idly while my people gets bad mouthed on the acts of NON Russians. As simple as that.
If you view them all as Russians that is your own problem. The fact of the matter is that they are NOT Russians, and they do NOT represent my people.
As far as I am concerned, I wish the Russian goverment to prevent that Russians get harmed in this whole sick business, as well that these criminal activities are elimitated within Russian borders. What these non-Russians do or don't do in your country, or anywhere else for the matter, is neither of my concern, or is the business of our goverment.

 

Then where are they from according to you ? And who brought all those Russian hookers to Amsterdam, because the red light district there is overflowing with Russian girls. They didn't come here out of their own free will, but got somehow tricked to go here, and once they arrived, their passports got taken away from them, which leaves them pretty much without an identity.

Just the other day there were a few anonymous Russian girls (at least they said they were Russian) interviewed on TV, revealing more or less how they ended up here, and the stories were all pretty much similar. They all fell in love with a guy who treated them nice at first, gave them all the attention and presents a girl could ever desire, and after a while they were supposedly going on a vacation somewhere in the west or in Scandinavia, but in reality she was being escorted to her room, in her new environment, got stripped from all belongings including her passport, and was forced into prostitution. I've heard the story over and over again.

 

Nope, that was Carcaroth. He's from the UK, and if you'll notice, the topic is "Legal Brothels in the UK", not the Netherlands. (Again, unless I'm mistaken about there being a difference.)

Oh, and all criminals from America aren't Americans either.

 

Unfortunately I have heard this story over and over again as well. It happens these smuglers are not Russians though. I will try to dig some articles for you to see.
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Yes, you are mistaken once again. Listen, I don't care who is Carcaroth, where does he live, or if these brothels are in the Netherlands or in the UK, simply because I was responding to Pac man's post about the girl he knows who wanted to become a lawyer and resorted to prostitution.
If you don't bother to read or understand my posts, to whom they are intended, and why, don't waste my time.

Yes, they are spics and blacks, right?

 

You'll have to excuse me if I didn't immediately grasp your intent to discuss the Netherlands in a thread about the UK (Carcaroth is the one who started it, BTW). If you don't care about the topic that we're all discussing, then perhaps it is you who should not waste our time by derailing it with comments to a single member that could very well have been addressed in PM.

... and whites, and asians, and hispanics/latinos/whatever, etc. A nice attempt to deflect the point, but a rather obvious one IMO. My point is that if you can disavow anyone who exits your borders, then no country has criminals; a philosphy I find very hard to believe. Just as American smugglers are America's problem, so are Russian smugglers Russia's problem. If you don't want to own up to it, then don't expect us to either.

P.S. What are "spics"? That looks like a made-up word to me.