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Make Joseph Kony Famous

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Barmy Army, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    I make a difference between seeing Kony getting tried for his crimes, which is a good thing, and what the campaign is actually about. For one there is utility - I doubt strongly that wearing a t-shirt in Berlin, Washington, London helps catching a guy hiding out in the jungle half a world away - secondly, ends don't justify the means. I doubt that Kony is more than just a pretext. I also dispute the assertion Russel makes that it was because of his campaigning that Obama sent troops to Uganda.

    The troops were sent to Uganda IMO primarily as a quid pro quo for the Ugandan Army sending troops to Somalia to fight 'Islamics' (so that the US doesn't have to) and to give Africom a mission. Russel spins that as a victory for his campaign. He probably sincerely believes that. If not, it is a success to show for, it shows that 'it works', and that is a great motivator. The entire premise is that 'people can do hard things' by engaging in ... social media. Frankly, I doubt it.

    I have checked Ara's link, and behind that there was a link to a speaking event with Jason Russell from November at Liberty University. This is IMO about stealth evangelising and have people finance missionary work abroad - and Kony is the issue of choice, because everyone can agree on hating that guy. Going out to help people in Uganda against the LRA, even if they aren't really there, is a good way to get in touch with people, and spread The Good Message though good works.

    The regional focus on Northern Uganda, even though Kony's LRA is operating elsewhere, suggests to me that this is a regionally focused missionary effort rather than a campaign to help bring Kony to justice. IMO the entire campaign is about getting people on board for doing good (i.e. Jeeezus). And what is wrong about doing good and making good money with it? It's cool! I found it very worthwhile to listen to the entire conversation they had. The dialogue between the host and Russel and his co-guest is replete with evangelical coded references. Oh yes, and loving Jeeezus is hip and cool.

    Russel shows himself in that event as just the sort of messianic person I loathe on sight ever since I was an altar boy and met my first charismatics. Passive aggressive pukes that radiate the message: And I will love you even though I think you will likely burn in hell for being less holy than I am - if you don't join me.

    h/t to Ara
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2012
  2. Arabwel

    Arabwel Screaming towards Apotheosis Veteran

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    Slacktivism is problematic because it lets people feel good about doing good without actually doing anything.Here's another link to where the pehenomena in the context of Africa is examined under the term White Saviour Industrial Complex - the updated version of white man's burden.
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Wait, wait, wait - we had it all wrong.

    Turns out he didn't have a nervous breakdown. According to his wife, Russell suffers from acute psychosis. Not that's a relief.

    Story
     
  4. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    It didn't say that he suffers from this, actually. It said that he sufferred from it. A subtle, but important difference.

    To quote the article he suffered from a "brief reactive psychosis, an acute state brought on by extreme exhaustion, stress and dehydration." It also says that he's expected to make a full recovery.

    For a minute there, after reading your post, it sounded like had been an ongoing, known issue.
     
  5. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    So he was crazy, but he got better? But he still needs to stay in a hospital (?) for several months. Is anyone else thinking rehab here or is it just me?

    Oh dear... another one of those.
     
  6. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    The main reason I don't support the invisible children thing is because I don't believe in supporting the lesser of two evils, also the reason why I don't vote Democrat. Military intervention in Uganda would necessarily strengthen the corrupt Ugandan regime which has its own blood on its hands, so even if we got rid of Kony we would still be left with a more stable regime that brings just as much suffering as he did. If you're going to do a job, do the whole thing and not just a part of a larger problem which won't change much in the grand scheme of things. The whole system needs to go, not just a symptom of a larger corruption. This isn't the fault of Africans alone and this isn't just an African problem, the U.S has done it's share of supporting corrupt regimes and I simply don't expect them to do anything else if it benefits a few industries.
     
  7. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Stay in a hospital for several months? The article says:
    Feel free to trash talk these guys if you want, but as long as you're going to be so insistent on comments in their favor needing to be "backed up with facts," you could at least try to get yours straight. Sorry, I generally enjoy chatting with this community on this sort of stuff, but on this topic I'm rather flabbergasted by a number of you.

    I'm also getting the distinct impression that a major source of the angst directed against IC is due to the fact that the leaders are evangelical Christians.

    I didn't realize that religious intolerance was so prevalent on BoM. Disappointing, to say the least.
     
  8. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Hehe. Whenever I hear "suffering from extreme exhaustion and dehydration", unless the sufferer was lost in the wilderness or stuck on the side of a mountain, I think rehab. :)
     
  9. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Aah, quiverful. Cute.
     
  10. Arabwel

    Arabwel Screaming towards Apotheosis Veteran

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    When will people learn that you cannot Zerg Rush in RL?
     
  11. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Sorry, I misread that it said that he'll "only" spend a couple of weeks in hospital but that "the recovery process [that] could take months before he can return to Invisible Children" will be spent... what, at home? He'll just let everything go for months without medical supervision preventing him from doing it?

    Geez, you'd think I wrote something completely made up, not mistake months for weeks while both were mentioned in the same sentence. Sorry, but you're overreacting here.

    I guess your impression is as much mistaken as you're convinced that mine is. I have a negative opinion of the "quiverfuls" (which really doesn't have anything to do with evangelical Christianity) and I don't like people pushing their beliefs on me or anyone else, but that's about it. If that's enough to be labelled "religious intolerance" then I guess it really doesn't take much. Frankly, I'm disappointed that you throw such accusations around so casually.
     
  12. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    Let me just say that any honest attempt to shut down the practice and round up these people who clearly deserve to be dead would be met with my full support. My only concern is the policy they are advocating places too much faith in the U.S to not do things in Africa that aren't part of the "take down Kony" campaign and have quite a bit to do with some more economic or strategic advantage for itself at the expense of any real support for non-corrupt institutions. Call me a cynic but it seems to be the goal of a lot of U.S policy.
     
  13. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    @Tal

    Sorry, I agree that I may have overreacted a bit. I'm a bit undersleeped and had a rather stressful morning, then I decided to post here. Well, at least I didn't end up out in public in my underwear pounding my arms against the pavement. Maybe I'll do that next week.

    As for my comment about religious intolerance, it wasn't only your post I was commenting on, and I assumed you were commenting on everything that you included in your quote, which not only mentioned that he was breeding his own army of Russell's, but that he was a Christian. Sorry if I clobbered you over the head unnecessarily on that one.
     
    8people and Taluntain like this.
  14. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    My problem is rather with deceptive campaigning. Quite frankly the guy cheats when he tells he is fighting Kony, when in fact he is doing missionary work. That he is an evangelical only completes the picture - evangelicals do such things. As far as missionaries go they are the most fervent, and as long as the cause is just ... they allot themselves a lot of leeway, even with the truth.
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    Aren't you forgetting something? (Starts with 'Mastur' and ends with 'ing.' ;))

    FWIW, I'm personally a bit reluctant to have too much fun at the expense of someone really suffering from this reactive psychosis thing, particularly the part about it being brought on by intense stress. Anybody who's ever worn those shoes knows that stress in its severe forms is no laughing matter. I'd group it with dangers similar to severe depression etc., and they might even be mixed together. Psychosis is no fun.
     
  16. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    OK, but I'd say if you're running around practically naked, masturbating in public, and pounding your hands frenetically on a street corner, it is fair to say that you are presently suffering from acute psychosis.

    This "brief reactive psychosis" they mention sounds to me like they're saying he was really crazy for a really short amount of time. I don't think mental illness works that way. Whether you are talking about depression, manics, or in this case psychosis, it's something you can treat, but not something you can cure.

    There's lots of people who have experienced "extreme exhaustion, stress, and dehydration", but they generally don't act the way Russell did when that happens. My guess as to why this difference exists is because they do NOT suffer from psychosis, and Russell does.

    From what I have read, that seems to be exactly the case.

    I don't have a problem with his religious beliefs, despite not sharing them. My problem with it has already been summed up pretty well by Ragusa:

    He's the Tim Tebow of viral videos.
     
  17. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Well, do we really know that IC is *actually* doing this, or this really a guilt by association based theory? What I've seen from Ragusa is an insinuation lacking facts, along the lines of evangelicals tend to be this way, and missionaries are even worse, therefore, IC must be secretly diverting funds and resources meant to stop Joseph Kony to spread the love of Jesus in Uganda.

    If it's true, and can be backed up with facts, then I could get behind a lot of the anger directed toward Invisible Children (not that I have a problem with Missionaries doing their thing necessarily, but I would have a big problem with that level of deception). On the other hand, if it was true and could be backed up by facts I would fully expect that every article, webcast, and news brief that attempts to expose IC as frauds would be playing this up above every other point. I can't claim to have read every criticism out there against IC (nor would I care to), but for those that I have, I haven't seen anything to conclusively implicate IC here (again, maybe I missed it).

    With that all said, I have to assume that this is yet another conspiracy theory lobbed against the organization, and this is the kind of stuff that I find to be irresponsible, inexcusable and just downright wrong. I think it was largely this accusation that caused me to fly off the handle a bit yesterday, even though I didn't directly quote it.

    So where are the facts that someone can point me to in order to validate this claim? If I somehow missed the facts on this one, I can guarantee that my opinion of IC will shift in a significant way.

    Note: And as a side note, by "true" I don't mean that Jason Russell shared his faith with a Ugandan citizen on his spare time while in Uganda working on the Stop Kony campaign (as I'm sure he also went to restaurants and did a number of other activities that had nothing to do with Kony). I'm talking about a formal missionary undertaking that is being supported with funds that were donated to IC with the understanding that those funds would go toward capturing Kony.
     
  18. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Marceror,
    when I say that evangelicals are like that I simply say that Russel blends in. I am not surprised that he is what or how he is. I have been looking at these people for a while and I have seen the type before. And insinuation? Far more than that.

    Read between the lines when you hear Russel speak beyond that Facebook clip. Watch that Liberty University clip. I watched the full hour. His language and his drift are pretty much unmistakeable. Watch at how the host reacts to it. Look at Russel's body language. Look at the stuff he doesn't need to say explicitly because everybody in the audience gets it. Listen to the reaction of the audience when he and the host say stuff. The guy is first of all about Jesus, not Kony.

    The people at Liberty know that. Trust them on that one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  19. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    If they're not physically over there trying to convert people on the Invisible Children dollar, I see no problem with them being a religious organization.
     
  20. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    I doubt they are capable of making that differentiation, because they probably don't see a conflict at all. Doing "good things" is their brand of missionary work and of course they are trying to covert people. 'Witnessing' is one of the things that evangelicalism is all about. They see it as a duty to evangelize — to share the gospel of salvation with everyone they know and everyone they meet. Everyone. All the time. There is little reason to doubt Russel's fervour. There is even less reason to assume he and his folks would retrain themselves when working in Uganda and suspend one of the pillars of their creed.

    Ironically, the 'heathen' inhabiting northern Uganda that need witnessing are largely Catholics and Anglicans. Uganda is an overwhelmingly Christian country. Evangelicals have a proven tendency to 'poach', or to do 'soul stealing' as it has been called. If they came there as openly competing missionaries they would have a much harder time finding access. 'Fighting Kony' gives them a more ... inconspicuous and less obvious reason to get into the region, and stay there.

    Getting together young people in the course of the Kony Famous campaign also gives them access to these people that they otherwise probably wouldn't meet.

    That's why Russel's work has been called 'stealth evangelising'. Kony is, in that sense, a 'witnessing tool', a cause that non-evangelicals can join into and that creates opportunities and openings, for witnessing of course. After all there is nothing more important and worthy than sharing the gospel of salvation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
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