Medieval 2: Total War

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I decided to start over - with England again but a long campaign this time.

When I took out Inverness I was ignoring a papal desist order - I figured that since I would win the campaign it didn't really matter if I ticked off the pope. I was excommunicated and when I went back to play a little further I found it more of a hassle than it was worth.

Anyway, this time I am going to try to be a lot more careful of keeping the pope happy. I plan on playing nice with the French and Scots this time so I guess after I have finished picking off the available rebel settlements I will jump down and take on the Moors.

 

My advice as the English is to blitz the Scots before the Pope can react. If you have them in your back they will jump you sooner or later.

 

The best advice I can give concerning the Pope is only do what he asks when it is convenient to do so. Usually, in the beginning of the game if you hold off attacking a Catholic faction for as long as possible (by taking any and all rebel settlements within your reach), you can build up a pretty good supply of Papal good will. That will allow you to attack a Catholic country against the Pope's orders once and not get excommunicated. Generally speaking, if you have at least 5 crosses next to your faction's name, the Pope will not excommunicate you for attacking another Catholic faction. Remember, the only goal you have is to avoid excommunication, as that really sucks. The only thing a high Papal standing allows you is a greater chance of getting the Pope to declare a crusade against the city of your choice. Joacqin's advice is also sound: If the Scots only have two settlements left, put an army next to each of them and as soon as the duration on the Pope's cease fire runs out, take them both in the same round.

In other news, I finally got the ballista towers fix to work! I don't know what I did wrong the first time, but everything appears to have gone smoothly this time. Granted, I haven't had an attack on one of my cities with ballista towers since the fix has been installed, so I have not been able to verify that it is working, but when I restarted the game after applying the fix, a box pops up before the game loads indicating it is accessing the new file, so I'm assuming it's working.

And it had better be. That's because this is the game where I'm going toe-to-toe with the Mongols. For the first time, I've taken the time to fully scout and prepare as best as is possible for their attack. As the Mongols are something that everyone will have to deal with eventually, I'm hoping that the insights I have gained will help other as well. As such, these are the facts that I have been able to discover up to this point about the Mongols:

They first show up in the early 1200s - usually around 1210. They can appear in one of two areas, and it seems that the exact location is a bit random. When you get the first message about the Mongols it says that it is unknown if they will continue north or south of the Caspian Sea. The game maintains that theme, as the two areas where it is possible for them to show up are Baghdad, where they will will take several Middle East Settlements, or Sarkel, which is the large area northeast of the Black Sea. In this particular game, they showed up near Sarkel.

Now, the first thing that I felt was necessary was to find out the full force of my enemy before getting into a fight with them. So a spy was sent as soon as I got a message that they were in Sarkel. I soon discovered that the Mongols show up with six (!) full stack armies, all led by generals or family members in their 30s - so they are going to be around for a long time. I also took the liberty of sending a diplomat to speak with the faction leader, and which point I found out that their wealth level is "boundless" and the force level is "immeasurable". So, I'm basically dealing with an enemy that has a limitless supply of both troops and money.

The next mission for my spy was to attempt to discern an attack plan - and this is where things get a little strange. I had anticipated that the Mongol Horde would act in very predictable ways - and by that I mean that they would simply attack each and every city that they came across. They do not. In fact, their wandering across eastern Russia seems quite chaotic and directionless up to this point. The six armies all move together in one direction each turn. They don't spread out - the armies stay clustered together. Also, they don't seem to attack whatever they come across. The walked right past Sarkel. They then proceeded north towards Bulgar (the northeastern-most territory on the map) - only to walk past it as well. They then proceeded westward to Ryazan, laid siege to it for a single turn, and then walked away again. Their armies are now located between Russia owned Ryazan and Moscow. I cannot explain why they didn't take any of the three cities that were seemingly easy targets.

Which brings me back to my plan of attack. I have drawn a line in the sand so to speak. I have formed a defensive wall with the settlements of Novgorod, Smolensk, and Kiev. All are garrisoned by full stack armies, and all boast level 4 defensive structures. They are ready. All of them also have additional defense capabilities in the form of ballista towers. (One thing I don't like is that even though I have gunsmiths and cannon foundries, I cannot yet build cannon towers in these settlements, because cannon towers are considered level 5 structures, and my settlements are still level 4 in development.)

So I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting. I've ceased my campaign against the Russians, who own the four eastern most settlements, as I figured the Mongols would go a long way to finishing them off. But they aren't attacking - and I don't know why. The Mongols are considered a Muslim nation, and as such, as soon as they take a city it is possible to beat them down a bit with a Crusade - a tactic I am planning on exploiting. It's been a while since there has been a Crusade called, so I'm hoping they take a settlement soon. What I don't need is for the Pope to call a Crusade elsewhere, thereby effectively preventing me from getting a Crusade against the Mongols. I fully understand that the Mongols are going to be my problem more than anyone else's, but that doesn't mean I'm above getting help from fellow Catholics. The Venetians are huge and quite powerful - a Crusading army from Venice would definitely help. But the Danes, French and Spanish also boast decent sized empires as well. I cannot expect much help from Milan, HRE, Portugal, England, Scotland or Hungary as they are all either very weak or currently excommunicated.

I have never lost a level 4 settlement to a besieging army, even when I've been greatly outnumbered. When I'm prepared for an attack, it usually isn't even close. No settlement can stand up to six full stack armies, but I doubt they will all attack at once...

 

Oh well, so much for playing nice with the Scots. I guess I will wait until I can put together a couple of large armies with catapults and try to take both of their settlements in one turn.

I have formed an alliance with the French with the hopes of keeping them off my back but I know that the alliance is probably worth less than the virtual paper it was printed on.

 

Is there any way to change the active CD-Key without being forced to reinstall? Reason is that I got a pirated copy but I'm buying a real one tomorrow and I do not really want to reinstall that hefty piece of software.

 

I imagine it would have to be saved on a file somewhere and thus could be changed. However, I don't really see the benefit of changing the CD-Key - unless you were silly enough to attempt to register your pirated copy.

Plant an army just outside of their city while you wait for the cease fire to run out. With any luck, they will attack you, in which case your attack at the end of the cease fire will be a cake walk. Alternatively, place a single unit of peasants in plain sight just inside your borders. It will likely get attacked, at which point the Scots will get excommunicated, and you can proceed to the beatdown immediately.

I have had alliances go well, and last dozens of turns. In fact, in my current game, I have had an alliance with the normally trecherous Milanese for over 80 turns. The thing is though, we've never shared a common border. However, I have never had such an experience in making the alliance with an adjacent faction. The rule of thumb to follow: Never make an alliance with a neighbor. Make an alliance with your neighbor's neighbor.

 

As I said, I'm buying a real version tomorrow and wanna play online.

Also, on the subject of alliances:

As Denmark, I'm in 1520 right now, and my alliance with the Poles have been active since our first meeting in the sixth or seven turn, and we are neighbours on my entire eastern front.

 

In my new game I have not had any conflict with the Scots yet so I don't have to worry about ceasefires. Thus I shouldn't have a problem with running a double take out on them at my convenience.

Still, I would rather wait until I have artillary ready so I can wipe them out in one turn and not provide the pope with an opportunity to interfere while the battering rams are being manufactured. That is what happened in my first game.

 

Well, since it's so early in the game, they likely will only have basic defensive structures. As such, a single ballista in each army will be sufficient to breach the gates. You certainly can wait until you get catapults, but it seems to me that ballistas would be the far quicker option - you'll have them by the time you take out Caernarvon (sp?) and York. I usually take out the Scots prior to taking out Dublin, but that certainly is an option, and by then, you likely will be able to build catapults in London.

 

Oh, I never tried using a ballista against a gate before. I jumped straight from using battering rams to using catapults in my first game. I guess that means that I can move up my plans a little.

Thanks.

 

Ballista's aren't great against castle walls, but anything is preferable to sending 90 men forward lugging a ram getting picked off by the towers and archers. If I don't have artillery, I just hold the siege out and wait for the enemy to attack me so they have to come out of the gate to attack me. Then I take them out well clear of the towers.

 

Playing a new game now, trying HRE and **** it's much easier than the Danes. Not only do they start with four rebel settlements reachable and takeable within three turns, but they start with six or seven provinces instead of just one. After taking Florence, Hamburg, and a few others I attacked Århus and then moved on to Oslo and Stockholm, being excommunicated but having completed one of my three objectives within the first 40 turns.

Gonna send down an army to wipe out the excommunicated Milan now, and then it's only to take the rest of the required territories. I think I have 11 or 12 right now.

Also, my alliances are through the roof. I'm at #1 in everything, and as a result England, Poland, Hungary, Byzanthines, Venice, Papal States(though they quit the alliance after I got excommunicated), and Sicily are all my allies. With Denmark gone, I also have no more enemies.

Life is good for the Holy Roman Empire. 8)

 

My current game as Milan is going very well. Currently i own all of Africa, all of Italy except Rome, most of the Middle East and 2 parts of France.

Im at war with France (who only own 2 settlements) , Hungary (who are quite big, but will be at war with Mongols soon), Venice (Only own 3 settlements, will be owned by Byz soon), Turks (they arnt attacking tho, which suits me), Egypt (Only 2 settlements left aswell, about to take them) And the Moors, who only own their Ilberian provinces, but Spain are soon going to attack them, and i have an army sitting ready so pounce on the first weak settlement i see.

The Mongold are becoming very powerful, they own all of Russia, Prussia, and are about to take Denmark. Fortunatley they should be going to war with Hungary soon as they share a huge border.

Currently im sitting on about 60k and trying not to lose money each turn, but that means alot of my Cities arnt building things. I also just survived the Black Death, with only 1 family member, a handful of Priests and about 90k peasant dieing from it.

Currently own 25 settlements, and that should be in the 40s when i finish off Turkey and the Middle East, then i just wait for the New World and take a few cities there, although ive never been that far in the game before. When is it that you can start exploring there?

Also when is it the Tirmuids arrive? And roughly where about?

 

The ballistas worked like a charm. The silly Scots had almost all of their troops in an army that was just sitting by the border and I easily took out both of their settlements in one round.

The majority of the Scottish army is now just sitting there doing nothing as a rebel force. I tried to bribe them but they were not interested - will anyone actually take a bribe?

My rating with the pope dropped from eight to five as a result of my taking out the Scots. I have managed to get the rating back up to eight again so I guess I have some more wriggle room for attacking Catholics.

 

When you get your first deep sea boat. You have to beware though. It takes ages to get your first deep sea boat, then takes just as long for you to get them over there! I also sent 1 boat with a full stack army and 1 with a load of merchants for all the gold, chocolate and tobacco. I thought 1 full stack army would be able to beat them off. Hmmm.. no. Next time, I will send 3 full stack armies and make most of them armoured swordsmen (all the fights over there are in full forest, where you can't see a thing, you can't use your longbows, you can't use artillery, you can't charge horses very well and your formations lost about 3 seconds... it's bloody hard). I bought as many Tlaxkalan mercenaries as possible and just sent them in as fodder. It is surprisingly hard taking the America's, you really need to re-think the tactics you've been using in Europe...

Not sure about dates, but they arrivein a similar place to the Mongols. Almost smack bang between where the Turks and the Russians start.

 

What about Hand Gunners? They could maybe get 2 shots off, and can hold in hand-to-hand for a bit, until your get infantry over there. Will take your advice on the cavalry tho, will only take generals as my cav.

 

Concerning the Mongols, in my current game they were first sighted at Baghdad at 1208. I don't know exactly what they were doing up there, but after a lot of mucking about (and a lot of turns), they finally emerged from the Baghdad region, which they had not attacked at all, to come pouring all over Mosul, which was then still in turkish hands, with 5 full stack armies. After a couple of turns or so it was suddenly not quite so in turkish hands anymore, as the Mongols simply came and plundered the lot. They then moved to Edessa, which was in my hands.

After a sobering defeat at the hand of my ballista towers (who at that point thought they were cannon towers, btw) of the 5 full stack armies, only 2 and a half stack armies retreated. Thinking that this was all of them, I send my high level assassin and spy I had nearby after them, harassing them every turn, trying to take out a family member each turn, and killing of the Mongol faction that way. The council decided to throw in some extra bait by ordering the assassination of the Mongol faction leader.

Oh, and btw, Aldeth, they will never attack with more than three armies at once. The game won't allow anymore than that.

I was mildly surprised to see that the retreating Mongol army actually regrouped with some back up units, bringing their total number back up to about 6 and a quarter full stack army.

The Mongol army then seemed intent on attacking me again, moving toward Damascus. Which they then proceeded (much to my relief) to completely ignore. In stead, they moved to Jerusalem, which fully equiped to deal with their threat with full blown (and working) cannon towers. They laid siege, so I 'sallied forth', meaning that I sat behind my high walls, and watched their armies get decimated by my cannon towers. After a while (and two dead generals later) I decided to call the sally a day. With the loss of their faction leader and heir in the previous battle, combined with the earlier efforts of my assassin, they suddenly found themselves with only one royal family member left. Who then fell victim to my assassin. Faction destroyed!

On another note, the egyptian crown prince asked me to assassinate his father. I was, of course, happy to oblige and was just about to call a crusade against Egypt's last town as well when all of a sudden the pope declares a crusade against Edinburgh. Edinburgh of all places! I never knew being excommunicated could be quite as dangerous as that. Still, this might be a good opportunity to gain some foothold in the northern parts of Europe, provided the english don't get there first.

 

Ballistas are great early on. I usually build a couple units as soon as they are available. It's also nice to have a couple for artillery support when you are exchanging arrow fire with an enemy. I build missile heavy armies, so I'm usually content to exchange arrow fire, with ballistas (and later catapults and/or trebucets) targeting the general's unit. Peasant archers/crossbowmen have a really hard time penetrating the armor of heavy cavalry, but no such problem for a ballista! However, ballistas are only good early in the game - as Barmy says:

Obviously, trying to take the walls with either a battering ram or siege towers is the least favorable option - and also a good way to lose 25% of your troops before you reach the walls. If ballistas are my only artillery, I will usually target the castle gates. Even a single ballista can usually break through high-level gates. Also, if you are attacking wooden defenses, ballistas will work fine there too (so the first two levels of castles and city). Once stone defenses are in place, stop making ballistas, as they are only good as anti-troop weapons.

The exact same thing happened to me! I figured the Aztecs don't have gunpowder, don't have anything beyond leather armor, don't have artillery, and don't have cavalry. I figured it would be a walk in the park! Little did I know that my archers and arillery would be nearly useless, and my cavalry would be much hindered by the jungle. I agree that heavily armored infantry is probably the way to go. Honestly, it may not be worth bringing any missile units.

Maybe your experience with hand gunners is better than mine, but I don't like them much. I generally prefer to stick to the higher level archers over hand gunners. You'll never have time to get two shots off either - the enemy is practically on top of you before you can see them. The other thing I don't like about hand gunners is that they don't appear to kill any more than the better archery units (longbowmen, pavise crossbowmen) but they don't fire over the heads of advancing troops - so you have a lot to worry about with friendly fire.

You see - that's what I'm thinking is the best strategy with the Mongols too. The big bad Mongols aren't so tough when they have cannon balls raining down on their heads! One of the problems you get fighting them on the open field is you eventually run out of ammo. Towers do not suffer from that - I've had towers active all battle, and they seem to never run out of ammunition.

AFAIK, the only qualification you need to be the target of a Crusade is to not be in good standing with the Pope. It has nothing to do with having the majority of the population being Muslim. I have seen crusades against rebel settlements, and crusades against excommunicated factions as well.

Having experienced crusades and jihads from both the attacking and defending end, I will say that it is MUCH harder to defend against a Crusade. There are only and handful of Muslim factions. If it is early in the game, the only Muslim factions are the Moors, Egyptians and Turks. The Mongols are Muslim, but aren't around early, and the Timurids are too - but that's a very late game event. Defending against a crusade though is just painful. I'm pretty good at holding settlements even when greatly outnumbered, but it's not ususual during a Crusade to have a half dozen full stack armies show up at your door step. You can always repel the first few attacks, but they just wear you down after a while...

EDIT: I only got to play a few more turns last night, but the Mongols still HAVE NOT ATTACKED ANYONE! WTF are they waiting for? It's now around the year 1280, they have been in the game for about 30 turns, and they are just hanging out, wandering aimlessly about southern siberia.

I certainly am not going to take the fight to them, although I have mobilized one of my armies to take Moscow. While I would much prefer that the Mongols begin their attacks against the Russians, I'm not particularly concerned if my attack on Moscow provokes them into taking Moscow from me. As I have stated before the plan is to get a crusade against a Mongol city with the hoped-for result being significant Mongol losses. All told, I'm rather irritated. The whole point of this game was to take on the Mongols.

Now, the mighty Venetians have also started a war against me. Their initial attacks were less than spectacular - they laid siege to three of my settlements as an act of declaring war (I hate when that happens), but they picked three fairly well-garrisoned cities (one of which was particularly well-garrisoned), all of which were able to repel the attacks. Now it's time we start giving some back, but this isn't a war I wanted. In fact, practically anyone but the Venetians would have made for a better opponent, as the Venetians are currently ranked third in most categories, behind myself and the Mongols.

I always find myself with more enemies than friends - an unfortunate side effect of having a large empire. Currently, I'm also at war with the Danes, HRE, Russia, and Hungary. None of those other 4 pose a serious threat though. HRE is down to one settlement, Hungary and Russia have only three left. The Danes are in the best shape of that sorry lot, with 5 settlements under their control.

[ February 13, 2007, 20:58: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

I can attest to that. Even after the 2-3 hours (real time) it took my towers to beat down those pesky Mongols, they still showed no sign of stopping, so it would be safe to assume that they never run out of ammo.

And it almost seems like the game doesn't want you to have more than 5 enemies at a time, this is not including the rebels, Mongols or Timurids. For instance, only after the very turn I took the last egyptian settlement, and thereby whiping them out completely, did the Byzantines attack me. Well, not so much attack as blockade one of my ports. It's not like a need a full frontal attack to provoke me anyway; that island off the coast of Antioch with the Byzantine fortress or citadel on it has been looking enticingly for some time now. Of course it'll be leveled and turned into a city, because what use is a citadel on an island that's never going to be attacked by the AI anyway? And Acre is still close enough to see to any such needs that might arise in that sector.

@Aldeth: Which faction are you playing as at the moment, Poland?

[ February 13, 2007, 23:24: Message edited by: henkie ]

 

and the winner of the first to be excommunicated sweepstakes is ... Milan. I can't remember the last time I was so unsurprised.

The special prize for winning the sweepstakes is a visit from the three English armies that I just finished assembling.