Old RPGs and Old Computers + NWN Series Mods

Remove all ads!

Yeah, I noticed that Cleric can get the Find Traps spell at level 2. A Wizard can get it, too, but not until level 3, which I'll never take because I need a Rogue's skill points too much. So I'll check out that wand, though maybe I can get by without it until I'm much richer!

I'm glad to say that my Pick Pocket skill is already at base 10, because I badly need more skill points elsewhere. (Still haven't reached level 5...been doing some real-life stuff.)

Yeah, I missed the "Tony the Tiger" quest. I did see that gang while making my way through the sewers during the Lesson 3 quest, but I was extremely weak then & didn't want to chance them turning hostile on me, so I left them alone. By the time I got back there, they were gone. Dang. Yeah, maybe completing Lesson 7 ended that chance. I do still have Lesson 6 to complete (the wizard tower), but I finished Lesson 7 long ago.

No, I haven't yet discovered what the Dhorn patrol is looking for, but I think I have the quest that finds that out: Uncover the Dhorn Spies. I only now just got that quest, because it wasn't until just now that I found 1 Acorn Street (Bognar's home) way down in the corner, somehow missing it during my exploration of North Bet. Haven't started the quest yet, but I think it requires checking out the Arena, which I also haven't visited yet.

I did just finish doing in Rick's gang. It was sooo nice to see 13 points toward Lawful added to my alignment!

**Sings "I'm off to be a wizard" while waving with his fake wand**

 

That bunch in the sewer included Tony, all guild members, and that side quest is huge so let him talk to you next time. The tailor shop used to be normal until Valine got busy scripting those models, then she did a fashion show at Tony's place to go with all her work on the dance routine at the mayors house. The dancer will need good stealth and skills, no equipment allowed, the dresses are shear looking so I pack some extra clothes and leave them just outside for pick up later in case of overload walking back in the cold. I just realized that there are some conversation checks that might benefit from more CHR, the beauty parlor is cheaper than a potion, might be worth a try to see if it will stay through the script, there are non-hostile guards to talk or sneak past.

Practice some pickpocketing in Talds Tavern, one of the named people has some great gear, and if you steal all of their swords the place will be very easy much later with a full party. Something to look for is if the Dhorn has his weapon showing it can't be pickpocketed, duh, but a few others with nothing in hand have gear for the taking, and a great idea if you are going to fight them later awake or asleep.

If you have taken a little damage but don't want to take time off to rest for 8 hours the baths put regeneration on you and the tea in the Tea House will heal a little.

The sewers are a transportation hub, as you pass through each hatch, but be careful if you need to meet a deadline as time is advanced when you use them like that, it can take less clock time just to walk.

Did the Dhorn help you out in the Swordfish Tavern? He is really the big baddie of this whole story, but if you didn't meet him there then another mission with him won't trigger, but he will still be ready to put you to question. I hope prwo gets around to letting someone's party kill that guy in ADWS, I don't care what a demon might do to him.

 

I certainly won't miss Tony the next time. With my habit of exploring every nook & cranny for more XP and loot, I won't be able to miss him.

I assume your reference to the Charisma checks is for the fashion show quest at the mayor's house. Great idea trying out the beauty parlor! I just finished my last Lesson quest and just got the fashion show quest. I'll be sure to spruce up beforehand...and take a cheap dress or armor to leave outside.

Speaking of my last Lesson quest, the wizard tower, it was pretty easy for me to kill all the baddies, so I did. Two warded spots frustrated me for quite a while though, a warded regular door and a warded trap door up a ladder. I went all over the place trying to find a key, lever or whatever that might trigger them to open, but couldn't find anything. I finally went to the wikia to find an answer, but there was no answer there. So maybe they were just enticements, which certainly worked on me.

Tald's Tavern for some good pickpocketing loot? I'll have to try that since I'm still so close to broke that I have to waste my gold on cheaper stuff, like the lesser rogue gloves instead of the greater. I did ID most of those scrolls I had mentioned (I had 18, not 15). But I kept most of them because, between my UMD and wizard level 1, it looks like I can use most of them. So I decided to hold onto most of them in case I need their help, especially those I could've sold for about 300 to 3,000 gold.

I wish I knew wizard abilities better, but my interests lie in melee and bow battling instead of a mage's micromanaging, so I'm seriously lacking in knowledge of a wizard's ways. But I have a sneaky suspicion that, even though the scrolls are not red, most have a very good chance of failing when I try to use them.

Yes, I did notice that about the tea but not about the baths since I haven't even bothered to use them yet because they cost money! LOL Might be helpful though in a situation where time is important. Same with knowing about the wasted time when using the sewers transportation system. I didn't know about that either. Thanks.

Yes, I went to the Swordfish Tavern as soon as you mentioned it the first time. I tried to sneak to the only guy with a name, way in the back, but could never make it during several tries. And I figured, "Oh shoot, I'm going to get raped & robbed again." Then I finally let it play out...and got rescued by the one and only.

I've been coming across more loot that gives points towards Chaotic if taken. And as hard up as I seem to always be for more gold, I've simply started to take all such loot. I've noticed that when my Chaotic stat reaches zero, the extra Chaotic points don't do anything. So I've resigned myself to living with a Chaotic Good alignment. And hope I don't come across any good gear that requires Lawful Good alignment.

Speaking of "good gear"...I've found two nice magical shortswords and other magical weapons so far, but not a single magical shortbow. I know I can buy a composite bow, but since skill points are of such importance, I've been spending my money on other things instead and can't afford that bow. And, as I found out from testing but not saving, having Igor upgrade mine gets really expensive really fast. So that option is out, too. Same with armor or clothing upgrades by him or Nora.

I've been saving a few items in case I need them in the future, either for me or for future companions, but I'm about ready to sell a lot of them just so I can buy some stuff to upgrade myself a little bit. Just have to hope I can keep any companions alive with only poor equipment...or none at all...added to them.

 

I always end up way chaotic too, except for those very poor with paladin and monk levels. Visit those baths to see what the naked people have left in their lockers.

There is a dead thief in the cell next to the one with the dogs in the basement of the wizards tower with free thief gloves and boots, not the greater version but still. Go back there and check out the rope again, only because Valine has such attention to detail, have you listened to the latest news near the merchants? The news will be different after the mayors party.

The ranger guild has some better short bows, and companions do come with pretty good gear to start with so just take care of yourself for now, they won't even let you borrow some of their stuff. You can ask Pia to level how you wish, bard, rogue, or fighter to match what you like. Her spell AI is pretty bad though so I restrict her to singing which you can ask for in conversation before battle, she can be asked to identify the items she can as well, if her lore is higher than yours. You will get XP for traps Pia or your pixie disable but they won't recover them so you will have to stop them if they see one on a chest or door and head right over.

Once you have looted every door in town there should be some money for the bag store, so after the dance and some simple quests visit those two in the Thousand Steps for the Golden Chalice. You should return with way better gear and loot to sell for even more, the Dhorn barracks (well the payroll of course), arena, mage academy, and some Generals have difficult doors so the extra gear, XP, and levels will help. A few of those nasty Swordfish patrons have good gear, but now there are hostile Dhorn watching the place so it won't be that easy.

Belts are not just for looks either, I always grab the archer one before lesson 7, and the only way to go toe to claw with a dragon is the greater swordsman belt, not so available once you leave for part 2. There are plenty of times to use the plain swordsman belt of course, and after you pickpocket their weapons that leaves fists so even the brawlers belt is useful. The Ironskin ring at the jewelers is a must have for me when I'm flush with money, as are the amulets of the masters. Dragons and Dhorn like to use knockdown, but there is little to counter that directly just yet, remember though that discipline is a way to avoid knockdown so take a few of those expensive points so the tanners gloves will help out, and there are discipline checks in the mod as well.

Don't neglect bluff either as there are a few checks for that, and one really hard one later that I'm sure there is a work around for, (I would have to read that wiki) and while I suspect where it might be, I don't know it since I always scrape up enough CHR to pass. Really good bluff can cause trouble with the dice game, you must play the strip-poker version much later both losing and winning so trying it out low-stakes in the hideout is educational, and I can get a couple thousand there for gloves and boots in high-stakes.

Last things for now is that spiders and later Drow, like to use poison, so you and companions will need protection from that, and something for the fear of dragons too.

 

Duh...

You just left me speechless! LOL

Don't get me wrong. You just gave me so many unbelievably helpful tips that I'm copying & printing out that post! But you still left me speechless for a couple reasons.

For one, I'm amazed at how you manage to have enough skill points to spread them out in all the necessary places. I thought there were enough "necessary" skills before now. And now you add Discipline and more Bluff. Please tell me that you're managing to do that successfully without going into the ini file or somewhere else to change how many skill points you have available at level-ups.

My plan was to take a 2nd Wizard level, because just one level is almost totally useless. I still might do that, but my next level-up will be Rogue again, because I really, really need more skill points. I finally managed to recover some traps. I was delirious with happiness...until I sold them. They were all minor spike traps that sold for 3g each. So during my next Rogue level-up, I'm likely to put all or most skill points into Disable Trap.

I can see how I may have to play this mod 15 or 30 times before I'll know where to add every single skill point to the best advantage. And that's only if I keep copious notes at the same time. At the moment, I can't possibly know that because, unfortunately, I can't predict the future very well. Although I must say that you've been giving me some great lessons in how to improve my fortune-telling abilities.

Secondly is how you manage to have enough gold to buy all that equipment before the big loot quests. Actually, I do have some idea of how you manage that. For one, it's obvious that you've been doing a lot more pick-pocketing than I have. All I've done so far is what's been required for quests. Which of course I'm going to change immediately. I never have gotten into pick-pocketing in other NWN mods. But I can see that I'm going to become a professional in this mod.

For another, I've suspected that when you had said you figured out how to make money fast at the dice game, you meant REALLY nice money. So I did play and try to figure out how to do the same, myself. But I kept it down to 5g anti-ups just in case, & reloaded when I was having big losses. After about an hour of playing, I was about 25g ahead. Talk about a waste of time!

And I don't know how educational that was. About the only thing I maybe learned...just maybe...was that it's better to call their bluff once the number is up past the middle range of the possibilities because the number could be too high for you to bluff by the time it's your turn again...or someone else wins the pot before it gets to you again.

And also that a high bluff skill level might help me win more, too. But then you just said that "a really good bluff can cause trouble." That's a bit confusing. I assume you meant it can cause trouble for you. How can that possibly be???

In any case, so far this is the best strategy I can think of, no matter what my bluff level is: Only play the 50g anti-up. Reload every time I lose. Save every time I win. And keep my weapon handy in case they decide to murder me.

Yes, I did loot the dead thief in the wizard tower. I'm wearing the boots as we speak. I had already bought the gloves, so the 2nd pair was just loot to sell. I don't know why I should go back and check the rope into the tower again, but I'll do it anyway, both before & after I hear the crier's new news. I haven't heard it yet, but I do know (from the wikia) that the clock I left there is really a bomb & the tower will explode. Hmm...will the loot behind those two locked doors be lieing in the ashes? I'll find out.

I haven't been working on quests much lately. I've been going around to clean up things around town, like things I couldn't unlock or disable before, and chaotic loot I didn't take. And now that you've convinced me to go on a pick-pocketing spree, I think it will still be a while before quests get much attention.

 

With the exception of the lessons, quests, Dhorn, and nasty taverns, I really don't pickpocket around town that much, there is enough loot and money from Nightengale to get me started, but spend it as you go next time around, you will know something is up when you are sent to the beauty parlor for a shave too. Two of the locked doors close to the Lion Head Inn have great loot, one is trapped and the cellar has a difficult chest I have to come back to later but the longbows there go for about 100 each, the other has that mingon and I just sell all the scrolls (I still use sorcerer levels when going mage). As a completionist I always unlock his door early because commoners or the Dhorn patrol can get stuck there and bash the door open before I get to lockpick it. You can even sell the free pie from the bakery. The Wildcat armor, the lesbians armor, and Hattori's armor all sell for a bit, as does the anti-undead flaming longsword if you brave the alip. And on that note, some of the ultimate swords in the mod are longswords, something to think about, give Pia a level of fighter and she can use them too, and the better longbows as well. I sell that sword I get for the wizard mission, not as good as others I like, and even the one Jacia gives me for the Dhorn Generals, I like the chance to stun, but you do have to be able to hit them first. There are big plus items for both STR and DEX here, though DEX bonus is just on the smaller weapons and needs a feat, sometimes I will opt for STR and save that feat for something else. You must be able to hit things that are in good armor, choose which way when you head off for the Generals. The werewolf with the missing key has good loot too, there is often good loot in the houses of the dead with all the rats about, and the lockers at the bathhouse. The really good sword someone has at Talds can be fenced for a lot too, you can't use it yet, Vico has an even better one and I don't trust Anden will actually use it either.

I do have to burn feats to boost my thief skills, more so If I'm taking other class levels that give so few useful skill points, all my characters start with 14 INT so I can get extra skill points to start as thief and at every level.

For the dice game, in the required round, you need to lose and get them to call your bluff, bad if they always accept it. You have to call bluff when you think they made the point, when the others are just going up one point over the last it has a better chance to be a bluff, and not every big point jump is not a bluff as well. Some intricate programming by Valine going on here, I'll accept some of the bigger jumps, even doubles, since I always have some chance to beat it or bluff but calling will often lose that triple anti (which is what you want the others to do when you make a good roll, to win their money or clothes). While I do save when I have won a lot, I don't have to reload unless I've hit a big losing streak, pots that go around the table more are worth taking more chances on, 150 per trip around the table in the hideout (there I'll play with the inventory screen open so I can track my gold).

Yes, the spike traps are not good for much, not worth much to sell, cause damage, or getting caught with. The higher level sonic traps are great for freezing enemies, and those that have potions of heal can't use them yet to get better while you bash them. Don't wait at the edge of the trap though, they can freeze or hurt you too. Another reason I like the chance to stun is if they die before using that heal potion they will drop it for you to take, Drow and Dhorn higher ups carry them, the rank and file have lesser potions that they will use when wounded as well, if you didn't steal them first, with their weapon. I use traps a lot, though I just sell the gas ones as I have not learned how to use those that well. Kite some baddie over the field you laid for him/her, or think about those doors you could not open as you passed and there might be some fight about to start. Hey, that gives me something to try next time, won't they have to use that door for ambush, can I trap it too?

 

In the OC the loot is semi-influenced by the feats you have. If you have weapon focus, improved critical, or other feats for a specific weapon type such as short swords, the loot generated will be biased towards that weapon.

 

Right, I used to spend quite a while at the major chests trying to get something I wanted in the OC, here in ADWR Valine didn't use variable chests so at least we don't have to reload for that. There are really good shortbows, but you pry them from dead hands in part 2, so the Ranger Guild is still a good option, and with enough money Tasheron's bow is there too.

 

I had met that allip in my early explorations of every place I could get into, but I didn't try to battle it until my current level 5, but when I still had only a cheap, plain shortbow & plain arrows. I buffed up with my Wizard's True Strike and Protection Against Alignment spells. My plan was to then hit it with my Wizard's simple elemental attack spells, so that I could take down a lot of its HP before I had to resort to arrow hits. I first tried the Ray of Frost spell. Three times I tried it, selecting the spell, then targeting the allip with it. Each time the spell seemed to discontinue when I clicked on the allip, and not triggering. So I gave up on the attack spells and resorted to hitting it with my plain shortbow and arrows.

I got it down to "near death" when I suddenly found myself dead. I still had half my health, so I thought it had hit me with some death hit. I later found out online that its "creature weapon" drains Wisdom. So I guess it killed me by draining all my Wisdom.

During my other tries, I ended up running outside, only to have it follow me out. So then the guards got into the fight, surprisingly ignoring me even though I still had my weapon out. I kept firing at the allip, hoping I'd get in the killing blow and get some XP out of the allip. But my measly arrows were no contest against those powerful Dhorn Guard hits. I finally gave up trying to kill the allip myself, and just grabbed the magical longsword, and sold it for precious gold.

 

Huh...so the game is actually rigged. I was assuming that it was following the basic mathematics of risk that come with gambling. I might've guessed it was rigged even then though (during my practice with 5g anti-ups), because the other two seemed to get an unusual number of doubles. Or maybe it was just my imagination from their calls of doubles and not their true roles.

Anyway, I went back last night and tried my hand at dice with a 50g anti-up. I stopped playing when I had profited by exactly 10,000 gold in 2 hours & 20 minutes. Although I wasn't able to buy that lovely Tansheron bow, I was able to get a Lesser Oathbow. With enough left over to get a Swordman's Belt and my first Bag of Holding.

 

Ugh. I’m feeling more frustrated as each day goes by. I’m becoming more convinced that it’s totally impossible to know where to put each ability and skill point so that you don’t hit a bottleneck & have to replay the mod from scratch, even if you read the whole wikia & take copius notes.

I’m feeling that most of the quests that the wikia lists as “Optional” are actually mandatory in order for you to be able to level up soon enough to be able to handle this or that stat requirement in this or that main plot quest. And I’m starting to run into bottlenecks in the so-called “Optional” quests, too, so that I have even fewer chances of being able to make it all the way through the mod in one play.

For instance, the main plot quest “Uncover the Dhorn Spies” has several examples of the difficulties I’ve been running into.

One problem popped up after Nathan gave me my own apartment & I heard water running somewhere. I spent hours trying to find the water source, checking all around my apartment in Detect mode, looking for hidden doors in walls or hidden trap doors on the ground or floors. That means slowly covering every foot of floor & wall space. I even went down into the sewers searching for such, trying to guess where in the sewers would be under or near my apartment.

Of course, I didn’t find anything, because the only answer was through my neighbor, Bognar. I had run into him in his nearby home. At one point, he attacked me, eventually gave up, & gave me the info about “oil”. I figured that was what I needed from him, so I let him go rather than kill him & get Evil alignment points. Unfortunately, it wasn’t until I spent all that time later looking for the water source, finally giving up and checking the wikia, that I found out that I should’ve pickpocketed a key from Bognar even before he attacked me. And now it seems impossible to re-find him so that I can get into his basement, where the water source is.

I’m guessing I lost out on some much needed XP by not being able to pursue the water sound any further. But at least I can still keep proceeding in the quest by eventually finding out that I can get more help from a lady named Sharita. That’s where I hit my second problem. I need her to help me get to the gladiators. But to get her to help, I need a minimum number of points in either Bluff, Persuade, or Intimidate, none of which I have enough points in.

Earlier in the game, I had read about one or the other of those 3 skills being of some help in the mod. As thinly as I seem to need to spread out my skill points, I decided I could only afford to put some points into one of those three skills. Intimidate was out because it sometimes might lead to where my only option is fighting & killing, with the result being alignment points towards Evil. So it was a choice between Bluff or Persuade. I picked Bluff & got it up to 4, but it needs to be at least 7 for her to agree to help me. The only gear I have to help with that is the Pickpocket outfit I got early in the game, and it has only Bluff +1 on it, so I’m still 2 points short. I’ve searched too many shops to count for other gear pieces but haven’t found a thing. Lots for Persuade or Intimidate, but not for Bluff.

I can still try finding an Eagle’s Splendor potion or Charisma gear, to raise my Charisma bonus, which raises my Bluff score, but I’ll have to increase Charisma by 4 in order to get a +2 increase to Bluff.

Even if I manage that somehow, I can see a third problem coming up with the gladiators in the Arena. At one point I’m going to need enough Open Lock skill points to beat a DC47 lock. That won’t happen for at least two more level-ups in Rogue, more likely at least three. And that’s only if I pretty much ignore all other skills. If I don’t find a remedy for my Bluff predicament, however, I’m probably going to need to put at least 2 points into Bluff.

The problems I’m finding with just that main plot are just one example of why I consider many of the “Optional” quests to actually be mandatory. But I’m running into similar problems with those. For instance, I feel as if I HAVE to do the Dhorn Love and Dhorn Slayer “optional” quests, even though I can’t avoid getting at least 15 alignment points towards Evil from them. But the wikia says that doing the Dhorn Slayer quest is not recommended until level 8 to 10. I’m only level 5, so it will be a while yet before I reach even level 8.

I think I’ve already done all the other main-plot and “optional” quests that could be available up to now except for:

(1 & 2) Jacia’s 1st & 3rd quests: But I refused both of those already because they were simply murder quests, without giving me any good reason for them.

(3) The Golden Chalice, which is a main-plot quest.

(4) The Know Your Enemies quest: Which I just got from Mando and might do next since I’m still in town, rather than take off on the Golden Chalice adventure. Although I won’t be able to get into the payroll office door, with its lock pick check of DC50, for quite a while yet. I might be able to beat that DC50 with a Knock scroll that I have, but I’m not sure about that. It’s not in red, but it does say that it’s a Wizard level-2 spell, and I’m only Wizard 1. Maybe it’s not in red because of my UMD skill level (8), but I have no idea how that effects the chance of failure.

So that’s where I stand with what quests seem to be left for me in my attempt to keep advancing. I feel really limited a lot in this mod. It would be nice if there were several levels of enemies that regenerated, so that there was at least some way to keep getting level-ups if you were having trouble advancing otherwise. But there don’t seem to be regens anywhere.

I can play a lot more dice for more gold so that I can buy more & better gear. And I probably will. Whether or not that will be enough to get me to the end of the mod, I don’t know. But a lot more boring hours at just playing dice seems kind of inevitable at the moment.

I really appreciate all the help you, ralebeau, have been giving me. You and the wikia are the only reasons I’ve made it to level 5 without giving up. But, as long as I’ve been playing NWN, I guess I’m still really a beginner because of my sticking with halfling rogues almost all of that time (all of which was too long ago). And I think “A Dance with Rogues” is really made for advanced players who really know the ins and outs of the whole game, such as using the ini file, using the tool set, and knowing the intricacies of different character builds. That's not me.

 

Yes that alip is too mean at low levels, I just try and sneak past to get that sword, reload if I fail. Sometimes with a summoned critter I have prevailed, but plus stuff is needed to do much damage in time.

When the Princess heard the water under the building, she says that her building does not have a basement. That is supposed to start a search of the adjacent ones, the one with the hostiles has no stairs so that leaves the dwarf. Sneaking in past him you find it needs a key so pickpocket is next, Interesting, did you did get the oil clue without opening the door? So all you have missed is Caron getting ripped up by Dhorn that you can try and fight or plot to take revenge on later. Were you able to tell Nathan about the dwarf and the oil clue? That sends you to the baths for the gladiator clue, but many of the locks there are very difficult as you saw, Drago and the hideout store have high level lock picks that should get you in with good gloves, amulet and potion of DEX if needed. I don't use Sharita now because these turds are worse than Vico, it was not so bad when you could kill the first one then sneak past the rest but they are tougher now. If you have a bluff of 4 you can get one more with Chella's dress, or that pickpocket outfit from the stolen goods chest, or the dressmaker, then a CHR potion rolling at least 4 and you are there.

There are levels and gear available during and resulting from the Golden Chalice quest which I will take before the harder Generals, the arena, and the barracks. I just do the easy jobs after the lessons and save the hard ones for after. While I do use the loopholes in the Aurora Engine when I can get away with them, catch the dragon failing his pathfinding and just crossbow him to death while he is stuck there. But while I do hit debug to climb over a split-rail fence at least I don't mess with the .ini file.

I still get very immersed in the princesses life each and every time, make her do stuff I know won't work but this fresh princess can't know it yet. I enjoy the romance with Pia the most, and Vico the least of course. Anden should be a nice one but is tricky to keep going, Bran and Rizzen from part 2 are the best of the men, but I have to sandwich them between runs with Pia. Some times any and all guys are fair game, sometimes mostly girls and demons, got to have Pia's dirty book so I can play with my self in bed. But if the thrill is gone it may be time save it for a do over later, plain sneaky but beautiful thief might be the best way to keep things going until foreknowledge can help with other classes.

 

When I had said that I checked all around her apartment, I did mean around the outside, too. Including the streets and Bognar's home, too. That's part of why it took me so long. And I checked the sewers, too, because "not having a basement" really only means that there isn't a door to one. The sewers could still be where a basement isn't. And I did it all in Detect mode, because doors in walls and floors can be hidden.

Yeah, I'm still enjoying this "plain sneaky but beautiful thief". I always have enjoyed exploring things slowly, in real life & in PC games. It's just that, in this mod, it feels as if there's a constant weight on her chest that's keeping her from taking deep breaths and enjoying the life. Maybe I should've given her 2 less Constitution points in order to take some of that weight off of her chest. And put them in Intelligence instead, so that I'd have more skill points to work with.

Anyway, you talked me into doing the Golden Chalice quest next. And I just spent exactly 3 hours rolling dice again, for 15,650 gold profit, so maybe I'll spruce up myself with some more gear first. Or maybe I'll save it for better stuff later, rather than lesser stuff now. I do have the greater rogue gloves already, so I'm set there. I still plan to buy that Tansheron bow eventually, even if I have to play dice all day & night. But I'll still keep my current Lesser Oathbow, because sure as heck, if I sell it, I'll run into something that's immune to the Tansheron's lightning arrows.

 

Use the dice winnings for various bags and boxes, I use the boxes for things that have no weight like arrows and bolts, or very little like rings and things. If you remember the tetris games, that is what you face if you kill everything and take all their stuff away from the summer isles. Keep all the good stuff safe, but the heavy things can be left on the floor to be picked up on the way back out, or left behind if you know it's not worth the weight for just 50 gold or less. Overloaded companions will complain and move slowly, but the engine will jump them closer to you once and a while so for the Monty Haul back out keep yourself moving at normal pace and, if they survive, the others as pack mules. This starts the major demon thread of the game, and if you want chaotic evil this is the place, and Sherpa all the loot back out by yourself. I also make sure I have good gloves, boots and an amulet of the masters, though just the lesser for now. Igor will be able to remake some armor that will be really good for the thief build, the stuff for mages after a later trip, so every trap, lock, and tomb must be raided. There is plenty to kill here, just decide how much you want to do solo, or sneak back to the pair and back track to take them all out way faster. Any way have fun.

Now the lock DC math, I think that DC47 might still go with the open lock spell, though the DC50 in the mage academy does not as I recall, still fun to try there as all the other nearby doors will unlock, that XP is fun, and now you don't have to stop at each one with a hostile watching. On a side note, all the academy guards will turn hostile when you go where you are not supposed to, and back to neutral when you return to the shops area. This caused a problem in earlier versions since after teleporting out you would not pass over the reset and everyone was still hostile when you came back in the front door, fixed now, but make sure when you leave the normal way that all works well and they go back to blue down by the stores. Ok, back on track, a level 5 thief should have 8 open lock, 4 at level one and 4 more leveling to 5, plus 2 more for a DEX of 14 as any good thief would. Use a feat for 3 more open lock points, a lockpick or spell will have to do the final 8-10 needed, Drago and the hideout store sell them, now with automatic 20 on the roll, we just need gear to get the remaining 6-4 needed. A potion of DEX is at least 2 more, with a role of 4-5, and if a point was added to DEX for an odd number the roll of 5 gets 3 more points. 2-3 points for gloves, 2 for amulet, and we are there. And while you are there be sure to get both the dummy and the real cash box from the office. Change back to good but stealthy armor in case the building security systems go active and spot you, steal all the potions and weapons you care to from the people. There is not much XP for the caged critters, more for the cage locks at any rate, I tend to leave them be, but the beholder has a ranged attack and well, just save ok.

An after thought, the Tasheron bow is very good, I almost always buy it too, after Golden Chalice or robbing the barracks payroll, but that accurate heavy crossbow is a must buy for me since I can use what ever flavor bolts will do the most damage. It is a long while before a better shortbow than Tasheron shows up, and the Oathbow has good ammo options too.

 

Just some random comments here before I get back to the Golden Chalice quest that I’m actively in now.

Somewhere, maybe above or in the wikia, I read about a seamstress in the Bearpit’s kitchen, but there’s no seamstress there. There is the note on the kitchen floor that mentions a seamstress, so I think that’s all the comment that I had read was referring to.

And speaking of a seamstress, you had mentioned above that Nora can add Open Lock to clothes, but she can’t. I think you were confusing it with Pick Pocket, which she can add.

Two or three days ago I had made a preliminary attempt at the Golden Chalice quest, but I got hung up right at the door with the first undead cleric inside. I did trying hugging the door, but I didn’t think to try it naked. So I broke down and went and read the wikia…all the way through for the whole quest. I came away with the distinct impression that, once again, I was going to be way under-developed for what lay ahead of me: for opening locks, for disabling &/or recovering traps, and for what sounded like some tough battles. Especially before I got my level 6 and added all those skill points that I had planned to add to Disable Trap (& possibly also to Bluff & Lore).

You had talked about a way to get Disable Lock high enough to handle that DC47 lock the Arena. Though that seems to be a more difficult quest than the Golden Chalice, I figured I could at least start to get ready for that quest by buying some of the gear we talked about that would help in the Arena and elsewhere.

So I decided to play dice until I could afford several improvements in my gear, as I list here. The numbers in parentheses are what I can buy them for with the Appraisal Gloves on. Specifically, I wanted to be able to buy: the Tansheron’s Bow (49,183), all 3 5%-resist belts (887 ea.), the Amulet of the Master (40,946), the Greater Amulet of Health (26,405), the Ring of Elemental Resistance (17,190), 5 more Bags of Holding (cost?) for a total of 6, and a box for my arrows & other light stuff.

I played dice for somewhere around 11 hours real time. Every once in a while I put a bunch of my winnings in the nearby chest, because it was easier to watch my total change when it was a smaller amount. In the end, I had a grand total of over 105,000 gold, enough for all the above, with some left over just in case.

When I finally quit and went over to the chest to get the rest of my gold, it had less than 20K in it. It was missing about 82 thousand!!! I pulled out some hair when I saw that. Reloading didn’t bring it back. I began to seriously consider deleting the freakin’ mod.

Then I remembered reading years ago about how to give yourself some gold using the tilde Console Command. So I went online to find out how to do that and found the command for doing that. But when I tried it out, all I got was an added line of Command text that said, “Entered Target Mode.” It changed my cursor into a special “target mode” icon. But when I clicked on my character with it, it simply disappeared without giving her any gold.

So back to the Internet to see if I could figure out what was going wrong. At about the 4th web site, I discovered another command called debug mode. I had no idea if that would help, but I didn’t have anything to lose, so I tried it. I entered debug mode, then tried the gold command again…and it worked! Then I exited debug mode.

For those of you reading this who don’t know how to do all that but would like to, here are the steps. Note that the Command Console automatically closes each time you activate a command by hitting the enter key. So you have to hit the tilde key again each time you enter another command.

(1) Hit the tilde key (~), and be sure not to enter any spaces after it. Then type in the following:

(2) Enter the command for debug mode: DebugMode 1 (don’t forget the space before the “1” but not between “Debug” and “Mode”. Activate it by hitting the Enter key. You are now able to enter a command. (You may notice some strange effects on your game screen, but they'll go away when you later exit debug mode.)

(3) Hit the tilde key again.

(4) Enter the command for giving yourself, say, 82,000 gold: dm_givegold 82000 (do not use a comma in the gold amount; then hit the enter key).

(5) Hit the tilde key again.

(6) Enter the command to exit debug mode: DebugMode 0 (that’s a zero at the end. Hit the enter key).

All done. Except, be prepared for possible consequences on your Desktop. I’m not sure if using the Command Console was responsible for it, but when I exited my game a few hours later, all of my 50 Desktop icons were scrambled into a random order and position. Even though for too many years to count, I’ve had them in a “locked-in-place” option mode.

So I bought all that stuff listed above & had 4 or 5K left over. I included a Lore potion, which I read might be needed in order to summon Hyath. I seriously thought about also getting some boots that had Dex +2, and some Dex potions, but I would’ve had to go play more dice, which I DIDN’T want to do. So I left without those Dex extras & started the Golden Chalice quest.

I’m still early in the quest, but so far I’ve been moving merrily along and happy with my gear & stats, although it’s already obvious that I still can’t recover many traps. I’ve just cleared the room where I have to go down the hole alone to the really serious part of the quest.

And low & behold, I got my level 6 right in that room. And, silly me, I had forgotten how many skill points you could have in each skill at each level. I could only add a couple to both Disable Trap & Open Lock. Fortunately, my gear raises them to, respectively, 17 & 20, but I think I’m still going to miss being able to recover some of the traps. I’m not that concerned about that though. I do have some recovered traps that I can use if needed. And I’m not worried about not having more to sell for gold, because there’s always playing more dice **groan** for more gold.

It turns out that my gear now raises my Lore up high enough that I don’t need that Lore potion after all. And my gear raises my Persuade to twice as high as my Bluff skill, so I didn’t bother adding some of my precious skill points to Bluff. Which is good, because Listen, Move Silently, Spot and Tumble needed some attention, too. You may wonder about Tumble, but with my low AC (18) and HP (40), even after level-up, I do need some way to avoid some hits.

So, I’m at the hole, about to drop down alone…and realize that I forgot something: a rope. Oh well. At least the ammy of health has regen on it. And I did read in the wikia that there’s a rest spot before the next battle anyway. **waves as she jumps down the hole**

 

Holy Dice! Never played that much, while that bow is nice, there was a plus 2 shortbow waiting for you at the first sleepover right? Tasheron is just plus one but still very nice this early. Thieves need ropes in most RPGs, but here they do weigh quite a bit so I've left them behind at the wrong time too. The cleric companion will help with spider and undead issues, while level drain is an issue with the part 2 undead dungeon it is not required here so the cheaper versions would do as well, I almost never pay the price of the greater health since I don't think the regeneration is worth the extra money, and I already have other items with that. There is a good cloak to have over in the docks store "Blackflame" is an anti attribute and level drain, cheaper than the amulets, and will stop the bad effects of disease and poison. The bone ring from the dwarf store in part 2 does the same thing and I buy that too.

I did mention the seamstress earlier but realized she does not add to lockpick or disarm, so I went back to my math post and removed clothes, but still got the total with the 3 from the skills feat. There is a note on the floor near the inner Bear Pit stairs that triggers the seamstress clothing improvements. I start the Golden Chalice with the lesser amulet of the master and miss an early trap or to but keep as many of those gas traps as you can while using any others you want for ambush.

That magic boob-key door has been there from day one, I did figure it out from the clues of the worn area and those mosaic panels, have to let those companions do their thing on the undead while you hit some with ranged. Target the ones engaged with the companions so they don't walk past them to get to you. You can see now why I likely have more thief/cleric builds in my local vault, I won't try and clean the whole place solo but I do some damage a plain thief could not. If you bought the disarm trap wand, there is one you can never spot, but it is not a big XP loss at this point and you might walk past it anyway.

I used to avoid resting after dropping down, number one for role play (would those two wait for me? and they would have pulled the rope back up on you anyway) and number two was the dream triggered. Valine moved that, but the paladin sword might work for someone else. Check all the corpses that are not moving, avoid the ones who are, unless they have a name and are marching past their locked doors. (leave a storeroom door open, one of them gets caught on that and stays put) Have you practiced pickpocketing hostiles? Even worse, they are moving, you can try as they are about to go past you, or wait near the way points they pause at. Save as soon as you do get a key. The four rooms each have something feeding that magic barrier, and some have the inner sanctum key, but get all the traps and loot anyway. I always return with those two and re-kill any undead I skipped, but it is just a bunch of greatswords and not a whole lot of XP to be had, except for those with names. Have fun, I hope!

 

Debug mode should not affect that at all.
The scrambling might happen if the game is set to use a different resolution from what your desktop is normally set to, especially if you use <ALT>+<TAB> to say look at an F.A.Q. on how to use Debug Mode and what commands to use to accomplish what you want (particularly when using dmspawnitem("ITEMNAME")) with the game still running.

This can happen with almost any full-screen game if it is set to use a different resolution, and has been a sort of bug since Windows 95. In fact, it used to happen a lot more frequently in Windows 98SE when playing MS-DOS games (that you need DOSBox to play in Windows 10) as those would often automatically switch to VGA mode or something with a similar low resolution of 640x480.

 

By the way, I did eventually realize that the demon’s name is Hyath, not the “Wyeth” that I had typed above. But “Wyeth” won’t be there now because I’ve edited it.

Yes, among my loot is what must be the +2 shortbow, but I didn’t ID it yet & I don’t recall exactly where I had found it. It’s not as good as my Lesser Oathbow anyway, which is +3 AB and Mighty, plus it has 1d4 Crits on it. But I didn’t even use the Oathbow. For one, I would’ve had to go play more dice in order to buy magical arrows for it. Secondly, though the battles would’ve gone faster with those magical arrows, the Tansheron’s Bow got me through everything easily enough. And it saved me thousands in arrows! Rapid Shot, especially, uses arrows up fast.

I didn’t need the rope after all. With my dexterity at 18, I was agile enough not to take a single point of damage from the jump down into the hole.

As you might guess, I’ve finished the Golden Chalice quest. And, yes, it was fun! It was fairly easy, even though I did have a couple problem spots, but I solved those quickly enough.

From reading the wikia, and being only level 5 when I started the quest, I was expecting the Skeleton Guardians to be a problem, but they were really easy. The first 4 were 3 walking around and one just standing in a room with a door at each end of it. I’m sure you know by now that as soon as you go out of their line of sight, they give up the chase and return to what they were doing. So I shoot, duck 2 steps to out of their sight, return to stealth mode, take 2 steps back out, let them put some distance between us, shoot, and repeat.

Later, they’re in groups of six. I didn’t even bother to hide. I just ran back and forth in the small space they were in, firing away at a single skeleton at each end of my runs back and forth, killing them one at a time. With my Tumble skill at 10 (at level 5) or 11 (at level 6), they almost never hit me. And with the regen on my Greater Amulet of Health, I healed faster than they could take away my health. The groups of zombies and ghouls were similarly easy.

And speaking of that health ammy, it was so handy. It allowed me to heal me and the others without having to use up our potions between rest spots. That allowed me to save our potions for critical moments, like during battles. Though it was annoying that Christano and Myra both asked why we were just standing around while I was getting us healed.

One problem I did have was the Undead Heretic just beyond the south end of the bridge. . Interestingly, the wikia doesn’t even mention him.

At first, I tried sneaking my whole party up on him to start a battle. I don’t know if he saw through my Stealth, or if he saw through the lower Stealth abilities of Christano or Myra, but the next thing I know, things went pretty crazy. Suddenly, there’s a summoned dire wolf attacking me, Myra is dead & Christano is close to death, both of them standing among some black tentacles sprouting from the ground. I don’t know how many hit points Christano has left (about 2, I think) because he’s gone crazy over Myra’s death, has left my party, and once he gets free of the tentacles, he comes over and joins the dire wolf in bashing me.

During my second try, I decided to finally set my first-ever trap. That didn’t work out. I snuck up to him (alone this time) and figured out his walking pattern. As soon as he began his walk away from me, I started to set a trap. But by the time I got the trap set, he was on his way back and only about one step away from it. As I stood up, he stepped on it and set it off, with me right beside him. I’m going to guess that more points in the “Set Trap” skill would have reduced the time it takes to set them. Oh, well.

It did take his health immediately down to “Injured”, but that wasn’t how I had planned it. I had planned to have time to sneak away to a safer distance and have my whole party attack him after he got blasted. I had taken no, or not enough, damage to be of consequence, and discovered later that I probably could’ve killed him then anyway, but I decided to reload & try again.

The third time, I snuck up alone on him and simply hit him with an arrow before he saw me. Amazingly, instead of summoning his dire wolf or throwing a magic spell at me, he pulled out a blade, ran up to me, and melee attacked me! I immediately ordered Christano and Myra to “Attack Nearest”, and we finished him off before he hit us with a single magic spell or his dire wolf.

Another problem was the end battle with the 2 knights and the priest. I was figuring they’d be at least somewhat spread out since they came out of two doors, both a ways away from the gong that released them. But the next thing I know, all three are almost immediately right at the stairs below the gong. I managed to draw the two knights away from the priest and take them into the room with the fountain, where Christano and Myra were waiting. The first time I got the knights in there, one of them killed Myra before I noticed that she needed help. So Christano was again my enemy. During me second try, I managed to whittle down the health of one of the knights before taking them into that room and all three of us survived.

Then I tried the priest alone, to see if I could beat him by myself with my hit-and-run bow technique. It was working pretty well. I had most of his health gone, and I was ducking out of sight before he could use an attack spell on me. But one time I wasn’t quick enough and he caught me with those nasty spikes. They killed me in about one hit which, being only a halfling, went up past my butt.

The next time, I kept him at the back of the gong’s podium while I whittled him down a little with my hit-and-run-and-hide-and-repeat technique. Then I summoned Christano and Myra from the room nearby. And taking a cue from that Undead Heretic, I ran right up to him to see if that would force him into melee instead of spells. It worked! We finished him off pretty quickly.

I was able to recover a lot of traps, enough to make me about 65,000 richer. I was able to beat at least a recover-DC of 39. That still left quite a few that I couldn’t recover, but I can always play more dice to make money, so XP was a higher priority than gold. So with the floor traps, I reloaded so that I could see what I’d get for XP if I only disabled. And disabled instead of recovered if the XP was more than 20 or 30.

So…I finally made it back to the town docks. For some reason, all I could think about was getting to Sanah in N. Bet. and selling a bunch of the weight that was bogging me down. So, rather than trying to slowly crawl in Stealth mode past more sailors and dock workers towards Drago’s warehouse, I went the other way, up to N. Bet. Only to find myself kidnapped when I finally reached the “gate” to N. Bet., by that jerk with the beard who had been hanging out in the Bearpit. And then finding myself naked, with all my loot gone. I let out a groan at that point. No doubt, even if I eventually recovered all my loot, wherever it was, I would still probably have to crawl a very long way in order to reach Sanah and finally sell it. Wikia time.

Well, I discover from the wikia that I won’t be able to re-enter N. Bet. without getting kidnapped anyway, even if I go to Drago and the sewers hideout first. So I go to Drago and sell him all my traps, then I head to the hideout. I haven’t sold any my heavier loot, because I want the better prices that I’ll get from Sanah, once I can reach her without getting kidnapped. So I have to stash it somewhere. I’m eyeing that chest in the hideout, but it’s the same chest that robbed me of about 82,000 gold. Maybe I’ll go stick my loot in some chest in the sewers…and cross my fingers that it doesn’t disappear.

Any ideas about which containers are safe and which aren’t? Or why the hideout chest stole all that gold from me?

Thanks, SlickRCBD, for the info about debug mode. I didn’t even know about that Alt+Tab thing though. I had simply searched the Internet, found the debug mode command there, and tried it out. And my game resolution while playing NWN has been fine (I’m using Windows 7), so I hadn’t changed that. So it’s probably something else on my computer that caused the scrambled Desktop icons. I swear, I often wish I was a computer tech just so I can reduce the stress that my freakin’ computers have caused me over the decades! Love ‘em and hate ‘em. In fact, I’m surprised to hear that you’ve managed to play MS-DOS games on Windows 10! Good for you!

Oh, ralebeau…some things I forgot to mention…


I think I triggered the trap that you had said you need the wand for: a gas trap. I didn’t have the wand, but I walked out of the gas before it caused me any damage.

Also, I killed every single evil creature I found during the whole quest. And I did do all the skellies and the room full of zombies alone, but the other two were along when I took on the room full of ghouls.

And thanks for the tips on the Blackflame cloak and bone ring. I’ll have to check them out.

 

I did mention dumping the heavy and cheaper stuff like shields and great/bastard swords at the docks store, like I do, so stealth movement is fun again. I play that my princess does not know what is next, and you can get all your stuff back but it is not easy, nor is the prison escape. I mentioned the longswords, well being able to use them sure would be handy once a guard or two are down in this prison, and the next, but you can sneak out, and if you steal keys to lock doors, they can't follow you even if they catch on. Explore to find the paladin armor, good for coin anyway, and get your gear back. With my gear back I'll kill every Dhorn I can get my hands or arrows on. Valine was nice on this strip as she gives back all the containers, I do cheat with foreknowledge when she decides to keep them though, since replacing them is way too expensive at that spot. The containers I think are safe this side of the docks are in the warehouse at the end, wildcat, the sewers, and the house at the other end, I would never walk that far overloaded. Stealth is so slow I just tell the men no means no on the way to the store. Keep some mile post saves from before the capture, just in case. I have stored lots of gold in containers before, another foreknowledge cheat, and had no problems, but not that large a sum, more like 50,000 I don't want to lose for ransom, make Nathan pay it if he can.

I will take out the skeletons too, but with different methods. With the new gloves and gate key I'll leave the gate locked and shoot the one inside while the two patrolling are not watching. Go inside and relock the gate, now I can take out the patrolling ones. The stationary one is easy, just close the door first, but the zombie room I'll come back for with the party and make quicker work of them. The trap that I have never spotted with search, also INT based, is just on the right side of the door at the end of the first set of traps. I will take out the six pack of guards with the party too, but the secret door transitions do not seem to move the whole party for me, I have to save once through and reload to get them beside me. I will have the party help take out the 4 room patrols, trying not to let more than one get their spells off at a time. With only the one belt provided for fear, unless you brought more, the mummies and such can be a pain, more so when your character has to open the coffin and you or the cleric gets caught with fear (the paladin is immune). The undead heretic can be a pain, there are ranged weapons provided just before but those other two are not scripted well in their use and that Evard's Black Tentacles spell is only fun when you use it on someone else. There are mummies on the prowl there too so I will kite something away so we can deal with one at a time.

Down at the final battle, with those doors we can't open yet and one guard we can deal with early, is where I'll set up traps. I will try putting some on the doors myself next time and see how that works, but sometimes a sonic trap will halt the priest and I can kite the guards back to the fountain room where the party is one at a time. The cleric and paladin have no stealth to speak of, so I have them rush the priest while the princess has his attention hit and run ranged or sneak and melee. Of course keeping that ring and summoning Hyath should be done every once in a while just so Christiano gets his earlier, but like I said, chaotic evil here I come, though there is a branch to get part way back too. One of my favorite swords is in the newly opened rooms, and Igor can remake that ancient armor into something really good for any thief who does not cast arcane spells. The wizard issue version will be collected in the Find Pia mission. If you want Pia casting her bard spells, check out the Dwarf, and a good set for the bard/fighter, wait till Pia is back before investing in his mage lineup to see which is best for your play style.

 

Hmmm…Yeah, it might’ve been the high amount of gold that caused the disappearance. The total was somewhere around 102,000, & when I found it missing most of that, there was 19,565 left in the chest. I vaguely seem to recall that being a problem in some mod I played in, online I think. Sounds like 50,000 is safe, so I’ll spread it around to more than one container if I have more than that, which I already do just from selling all the traps.

Besides the traps, all I sold were things that sold only for 1 or 2 gold. Because once it has enough value for Drago to give me 3 or 4 gold for it, Sanah will give me more. Yes, I’m that picky with my gold! LOL I don’t want to play dice any more than I have to. I was sad that I had to leave a bunch of stuff on the beach back on the island. Even six Bags of Holding and 5 other bags and boxes weren’t enough for it all.

And you say during a later kidnap Valine has it so that you lose your bags? Not good. I hope I find that out before it happens, so that I can leave behind my bags ahead of time. That could be a very long replay if I don’t discover that I won’t get them back until long after the kidnap.

Sounds like another good method you use on those first skeleton guardians. I did sneak all the way to the gate at first, to familiarize myself with the whole layout. It occurred to me when I found the gate locked that I might be able to shoot at the one behind it through the gate or fence. But the pattern that the other 2 were walking made it difficult for me to kill that one first (and I wasn’t sure it didn’t have its own key). They were passing each other right at the bend, where they turn from the long hallway into the gate room. So when one was exiting the gate room, the other one was just about to enter it. So it was almost impossible for me to shoot the one behind the gate without one of the other 2 being in line of sight of me. So I took out the other 2 first.

For the skeleton standing in the small room, I did it differently than you. After killing the 2 in the hallway, I opened both doors to the small room. Then I went in through one door and shot at it. When it began to run towards me, I ran out. When it stopped running, it would be almost to the door that I had shot it from. Then I ran into the other door and took a shot from there. Then ran back to the first door and repeat. It was always near the door at the opposite end of the room each time I snuck in and shot from the opposite door, so it never got close enough to even take a swipe at me.

Traps at the doors in the final battle area? I like that idea. If I can manage to see the paths they each take, I could set even more than one trap. Although that would be wasting a bunch of potential gold, it would be fun to try it anyway.

Well, I have some things to attend to here in real life, and I may not be able to get in much, or any, game playing time for a few days. We’ll see. I’ll be back eventually.