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Single Mom Fined $ 1.92 Million for 24 Songs

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by The Shaman, Jul 6, 2009.

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  1. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Remove all ads!
    Hehe. And you didn't get my twist which was just because you weren't there and don't know what criteria they used, you are assuming it's arbitrary. I suppose it could be unpredictable until the end of a trial since you can't know what all the evidence is going to be. But I take your point since there were already two differing judgements :)
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jul 9, 2009
    #41
  2. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

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    And if there was the chance of not being able to get away with $18,000 but having to either pay the million or go to jail, that would be a much stronger deterrent. Yet the RIAA happily goes for the $18,000 at the first opportunity. That's not going for the best deterrent, that's going for easy money (especially since no pirate is going to be able to pay the full amount of the damages anyway).
     
    Ziad, Jul 9, 2009
    #42
  3. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Oh, I disagree with that. The RIAA knows very well the chances of recovering millions of dollars from these people are nil. It's easier to not have to go to trial.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jul 9, 2009
    #43

  4. Bluerose Gems: 4/31
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there is a trial to determine if someone has committed a crime. If they have, the punishment for the crime is decided. The type and amount of punishment is determined by law and precedents. So, for two similar (say, murder) cases the punishments would be similar. You can also appeal a case. It is still the same case, so the punishment should me in similar ranges (with the exception that the higher instance might come to a different conclusion about if/how the crime was committed).

    So, this puzzles me:

    Why should she have to pay (significantly) more for the same offence, just because she fought the original ruling?
     
    Bluerose, Jul 9, 2009
    #44
  5. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    She shouldn't; it was just speculation on my part as to a possible reason the jury upped the amount. It could very well have been new/different information introduced in the new trial. Or not :)
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jul 9, 2009
    #45
  6. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

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    Yes, but if they don't go to trial then the deterrent is nowhere near as effective. Hence my point.
     
    Ziad, Jul 10, 2009
    #46
  7. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I guess I wasn't very clear; I think the several thousand dollar deterrent is as sufficient as millions for these people, and the RIAA doesn't need and doesn't want to try for anything more. Thousands will hurt and millions won't matter because they will never have it anyway, and sending these kinds of people to jail or insisting on millions (or even tens or hundreds of thousands) would just be a PR nightmare for the RIAA.

    You see how people are upset over this just from the point of view of the court system; imagine if the RIAA was trying to get that kind of money rather than still indicating they will settle for less.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jul 10, 2009
    #47

  8. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
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    I don't want to get sucked into any argument here - mostly I'm just curious.

    With settling for a few thousand dollars rather than be taken to court - it's always sounded like extortion to me. 'Give us money or we'll sue you into the ground' sort of thing. Given the abnormally high number of lawyers here - can someone explain to me why this isn't counted as extortion?
     
    Aikanaro, Jul 10, 2009
    #48
    Ragusa likes this.
  9. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I think you are right Aik. Unfortunately there are some legal means of extortion....
     
    T2Bruno, Jul 10, 2009
    #49
  10. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    When they know they're guilty, most people have the sense to quit while they're ahead. That's why giving them a relatively easy way out works most of the time. I'd only see it as extortion if I hadn't pirated anything and they still went after me, for instance.
     
    Taluntain, Jul 10, 2009
    #50
  11. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I was answering in a more broad spectrum than this specific case. My company has settled several times with customers -- when both sides knew the customer was in the wrong in each case -- because it made financial sense to make the problem go away for a fraction of the legal fees we would have if the case went to court.

    For some companies (such as Disney) a settlement may tarnish the image of the company, so they fight frivolous lawsuits and spare no expense in doing so.

    RIAA has gone after a few people who were innocent and, even after being presented with evidence of innocence, still pursued the settlements. In those cases it was very close to extortion -- 'either pay us or we'll take you to court, we don't care about your evidence.' IIRC RIAA lost those cases, but those sued had to pay for their own defense.
     
    T2Bruno, Jul 10, 2009
    #51
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Blackthorne TA, Aug 18, 2009
    #52

  13. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    That's reallove right there! Either that, or she played the damsel in distress sympathy card.
     
    LKD, Aug 18, 2009
    #53
  14. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Blades of Vanatar, Aug 18, 2009
    #54

  15. Incarnate Gems: 5/31
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    One day the law will change , and i will do everything i can to change it.
    Cases like this make me think that maybe Lenin was not such a bad guy.
     
    Incarnate, Aug 20, 2009
    #55
  16. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    It appears that's what separate property was invented for.
     
    Ragusa, Aug 22, 2009
    #56
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The saga continues! Apparently the judge determined the $1.92M was excessive and reduced it to $54,000, the RIAA again offered to settle for $25,000 given to a music charity, she refused and got slapped for $1.5M from another jury.

    So comical! :lol:
     
    Blackthorne TA, Nov 4, 2010
    #57
  18. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Which tells me that, never mind that woman, juries are a bloody wild card. Obviously that other jury slapped her with that new amount of 1,5m because they wanted to punish her. Nonsense like that wouldn't have happened with only professional judges around, and it would have not only cost the woman less, but the taxpayer as well.

    From Wikipedia:
    That is probably very accurate. I think juries are an anachronism and I am happy we don't have them here.
     
    Ragusa, Nov 4, 2010
    #58
  19. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    And we wouldn't be drafted to serve on juries either! :)
     
    Blackthorne TA, Nov 4, 2010
    #59

  20. mordea Banned

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    Some women love to lock themselves in the highest tower, with the most dastardly black knight, and then beg for the dumbest white knight manginas to save them.

    These manginas are big fat suckers! I wish men who were so stupid were stomped in the testicles by Mike Tyson three times a day, and subjected to a public mocking afterwards. Perhaps then they would wake up as to how they are getting played. Although I doubt it, the brainwashing is extensive.
     
    mordea, Nov 4, 2010
    #60
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