Why do you dislike the US?

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Bush, a lot of republicans, and their stupid our-country-is-the-best attitude.

 

Faragon makes a good point, that is part of what I meant. Another part is that the different churches in the States are very powerful and have great influence on mostly the Republican party. As has been said, it reminds in a scary way about the middle-east.

The electoral system instead of a proportionate election system is in my opinion a huge block for a functioning democracy. It totally eradicates diversity, allowing the two most powerful parties to further consolidate their power. It may give strong government but it takes away the power of the people to choose. For far too many people the choice between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between plague and cholera which leads to them not choosing at all and thus not voting. Not voting is the death of any democracy.
Just for the record so has the UK more or less the same problem.
It is not easy to change either as neither democrats nor republicans are going to make a change that would diminish their own power.

 

I think it was a good idea to start this topic, because problems between US-Americans and the rest of the “Free-World” can’t be overlooked. Especially since this problems affect nearly every forum on the net, so this forum too.
And I think it would also be fair, to turn the question around and ask: Why are Americans so hostile against people outside of the US ?

And I also noticed, that nearly no Asians post in this forum. They probably prefer Japanese games.

My point of view is, that there’s a fundamental difference between the way Europeans and Americans think about themselves and the world. This leads to misunderstanding and later to aggravation on both sides.
And I think this will problem will become bigger and bigger in the future and separate Europe and America more and more.

And there are a lot of things which divide. Some are:

Americans think of themselves as rich. What they are. Europeans think the same thing about themselves. Europe is financially pretty well off too. (Japan is the second richest country, China third, Germany forth (but “only” 80 millions citizens)
But Americans are sometimes perceived as “beggars”. Right now European Countries waiting for a begging tour from Powell and Rumsfeld, knocking on the door of their allies for some money, because their war has become longer and more expensive than they thought. And European Countries have paid huge sums to the US in the past, for the costs of their wars. So many caricatures show “baby Bush” making a mess and European leaders have to clean it.


Most Europeans don’t agree and can’t understand how the US is handling its problem with the Middle East. Searching for an “Islamic aggressor” that attacks “without any reason” is, given the colonial background of European countries, not comprehensible.

Colonial Background: Nearly the whole Middle East used to be European Colonies. So it's not surprising, the some Algerians aren't to fond of France, or some Egyptians dislike the British. That's not because their Religion tells them so.


Americans mostly deny to belong to the former colonial powers (they used to have colonies too: Hawaii, Cuba, Philippines etc.)


Americans like to say “everybody envies us for are judiciary system”. No. Certainly no. No European Country would give up their own judiciary system to get the American one. No way.


Americans make strange comments. In a Swiss TV Show they asked an American (who lives and works in Switzerland) how he explains the hyperpatriotic flag-waving of the Americans. He said, it was because of WWII, because all Americans had to stick together.
That’s a confusing answer, because nearly every European country was more involved in WWII than the US, and therefore their people had to stick even more together. And they rather stopped to do such things after WWII:


And Because "thinking" about this topics is so different between Americans and Europeans, it's just difficult to have even a conversation. Things which are not intended to be offensive are understood as offensive. But this is a problem for both sides.


"When I say "I" don't like the american judiciary system, than that's my opinion about it, not america-bashing". But Americans tend to automaticly understand it this way.


Clash of Civilications

[ April 04, 2003, 23:05: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

Same here. I do not dislike the US. I dislike their government as it is IMO a dangerous and irresponsible bunch and I strongly wonder about many things. Like:

• I cannot understand the american reasoning (or IMO lack thereof) when it comes to guns - it is utterly mysterious to me, only explainable by the US perception of their constitutuion.
  .
• Beeing german I have learned one thing: That nationalism is dangerous. Nationalism has brought so much bloodshed over europe. The intense display of nationalism (IMO) in the US therefor repulses me.
  Children in class doing flag-call in school in the morning, singing the national anthem. For me as a german that sight has long lost it's innocence.
  .
• The US legal system is always good for a funny story of stupid people sueing others for millions. Well, the idea of punitive damage isn't bad in itself - the problem is it beeing dependent on a more or less intelligent jury (or the eloquence of a manipulative lawyer).
  Another problem is IMO the election of prosecutors and judges as it invites to use cases to gain public notice for a later career in politics - quite a number of people are in death row because of that. And when we are there already, I don't understand the ratio behind death penalty either.
  .
• Christian fundamentalists ...
  .
• I can't understand the US perception of the middle east and the logic how they reacted on 9/11. Europe has suffered terror since the 1970s, quite a lot countries here had their own domestic terrorists and had to deal them.
  Surprisingly the US seem to feel that they are at the forefront in the war against terror and that the others do nothing, only obstructing them. Maybe it's that we think it's apolice job and are relucant to bomb other countries? It's not that we just lack the power to do so - it's a massively different philosophy.
  .
• I despise the current US gvt's way to do foreign policy - as the decisions come from the pentagon rather than from the diplomats that's always bad. The actual isolation of the US is a sign of how bad it exactly is.
  I especially despise the unscrupulous ignorance for international law and the grandeur with which the US decided the current war with Iraq.

These are just a few things where my european sight and the US perception clash .... By criticising these points I IMO do not want to "bash the US" or insult them - despite my occasional polemics or caustic jokes I do respect the US.

Perhaps that's why Moore's film is so popular in europe: It may give a hint how to understand the "alien cousin" overseas. At least it, again, gives a lot to wonder about.

 

Ragusa -- I agree with everything in your critique except one thing: The pentagon is not deciding policy. In fact, Rumsfeld and the gang have been trying their best to intimdate the hell out of them. None of these guys, with the exception of Colin Powell, are true military, and have no understanding of what the military is about.

The word is, that because some of the top brass in the military can't stand these guys, Rumsfeld has already begun nameing successors to some of the generals who are close to retirement -- making them lame ducks. A few of them appeared before congress and said that they think the guys making policy don't know much of anything. Thus, Rumsfeld has begun to "clean house" in the Pentagon (in other words, he is looking for yes men).

That should clue you in as to how dangerous this adminstration really is. Policy is dictated by ideologues who think that we are in the "American Century." They are arrogant men who believe that the rest of the world needs to be in step with whatever their idea of "America" happens to be. Things here are much worse than you can imagine. Those of us who dare to protest are branded as traitors. It's that bad. Maybe someone will be courageous enough to bring freedom back to America again.

 

I haven't read all of the posts here, and I don't think I need to in order to post my opinion. My mother was American, and I know a fair bit about the country. I don't hate the Americans, the polity, or the Constitution. What I do find troublesome is the arrogance displayed by SOME Americans. Here in Canada we have a comedy show, and one of their infrequent segments is a piece called "Talking to Americans". A reporter goes and asks Americans on the streets really silly questions, like "Should Canada legalize personal fax machines?" and "Did you know Canada does not follow the 24 hour clock system, but have their own 20 hour system?" You wouldn't believe what they'll swallow. He even caught an American governor, and in fact had the first President Bush acknowledge that the Canadian Prime Minister was named Jaques Poutine. Now, not knowing about a country that is several thousand miles away on a different continent is one thing, but Canada is right next door! Now, my pride isn't too damaged by this, but the fact that some Americans don't know the first thing about a neighboring country highlights their introspective arrogance, and undercuts their credibility when they decide to go off and attack a country overseas (and before anyone forgets, I'm in FAVOR of the US actions in Iraq, I just wish Americans looked outside their supposedly perfect bubble a little bit.)

 

I don't have anything against the US, it's the people that live there They are S..O T...H....I....C...K at times. Especially Bush. And they're all either fat or anorexic

[PM warning pending.] -Tal

[ April 05, 2003, 21:57: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

What I don't like about America.

The Americans seem to look down on others, planty of people I have talked to on the internet say nasty things about the Brits and when I say I'm from England they sort of go:
"Oh, I thought all Brits were <unrepeatable insults here>"

Even though it is most likely untrue for many there is also a vast amount of people who consider themselves above others because they are American, it is also true for other places, but I think Americans make it more obvious.

Recently - an American woman and her son asked me for directions, the Woman kept laughing because I have a British accent and then the little boy said "Do you like paries?" and the woman turned to him and said "Now don't go confusing her, honey, Brits don't party."

Another reason is that Bush and quite a few others seem determined to have a war, many of them actually seem to ENJOY the fighting. On TV we see them cheering as they blow people with bombs and they also shoot the British troops.

I think people feel patronised by the US. Also (no offense) many seem a bit ignorant to some things. I saw a program with an American scientist and he said that most Americans in high school thought the whole of Europe, Asia and parts of Africa were the USA, because it was so big. They sometimes use slang and their versions of words and then think others are stupid for not knowing what 'pants' 'sidewalks' 'trash cans' and other things are, some things are different over here, several times I have been given shocked looks or am the ones giving them because I haven't understood what was said

 

The American word for a see saw is 'teeter totter'! lol need i say more.

But seriously. Just like the sense of Nationalism that swept Europe in the 19th century, Britain is succombing to a severe case of Yanky-phobia.

One of my best friends is the opposite, he has been to America several times and declared the other day that everything over there was 'igger and better'. Needless to say this got him very close to a bruising from some of the more right wing members of our college. This would initially seem to be a form of envy, however i do not see it as that.

I do not think we (talking Britain here) is envious of America, belive it or not, our class of living is just as high and we DO party, like hell. America is not better than us, it just thinks other's are not as good. This annoys me to say the least.

I have recently experienced an exchange group from New York. I met a guy called Sammy, nice guy, but totally ignorant of anyone elses culture but his own. Needless to say we ensured that he gained a new respect for Britain by taking him and several others on the booze up of the century (small point: The yanks just couldn't take the pace).

They were then opened to the experiences of rugby, pub culture, my best mates driving, rock music gigs and clubbing.
The opinions when they left were seriosuly contrasting to the opinions on arrival, there was almost a sense of respect for us.
And on one more cultural note, these yanks must have had mcdonalds almost every night, i mean MY GOD! how can anyone eat so much junk food!

Anyway, my point is this: America is not better than any other country, or at least on a cultural level. People do not hate Americans because they are jealous or threatened. People just get angry because noone gets respect from Yanks. They consider themselves better simply because as far as they can see they are! American media and popular culture shields them from seeing anything remotely cool about other countries culture.

Any yank who thinks Britain's can't 'party'..... well i challenge you to spend a week with me and my mates.

 

Chandos,
As the secretary of defence Rumsfeld in the essence *is* the pentagon. I agree with you - the Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz gang are dangerous indeed. If interested in what they are up to, ask them themselves (thanks again BOC ) and have a look here.

When you see at the current global military and geopolitical events you'll notice they're working on it already. Most interesting as no one ever asked the US citizens if they wanted to maintain a global presence for hegemonia ... err ... fighting terror. For these dudes 9/11 was a gift.

 

I am not sure that Rumsfled is in essence the Pentagon. It is a deeply entrenched institution with traditions that go way back and has seen bigger monsters (and been run by bigger monsters) than this current bunch. These guys were private citizens before Bush was appointed prez by the supreme court. The real problem is the lack of opposition in this country. Thank God for Europe! But I did not want to get off Laches' topic. Maybe this should be on another thread. . .

 

well excuuuuuuuuuse me. I thought we were supposed to post opinions? That's mine

Seriously though, sorry if I annoyed anyone

 

To make it short, I simply agree with Ragusa's point of view.

 

I too dislike the U.S. government but not its people. My great grandfather was American.

The U.S. government looks after its country just like any other government would. Unfortunately, its influence is far greater than most others. Its foreign policy greatly affects the affairs of other countries. Often its to the detriment of those countries. I guess it wouldn't be as bad if we didn't hear news about Americans who don't know where Iraq and other countries are and then they go out and support whatever actions the government pursue.

Strange too that the Americans support their government (propaganda aside) when voter turnout is low. They don't seem to care enough to vote and then become vocal about issues later on. It promotes the idea that the average American is ignorant and yet supports whatever its government says it should do.

 

LMAO !!

Well said Dargorn!

It's true that a lot of yanks think they are better then their european and asian cousins, but the ones I have met in MMORPGs wasnt like that(Although a lot of them didnt even know what Denmark is )

 

I will say this.

Although I have always had respect, I have a newfound sense of Awe where the British army is concerned.

Out. Standing.

They are seriously kicking *** and taking names. Transcribing that list to text is going to suck, hardcore, for the poor fool that has to do it. Gear up the OCR.

 

Do you really want to know WHY we don't like Americans? It can be answered in one word. Arrogance. I do not want to seem racist, i have nothing against americans as persons, but as people, you are real d**kheads. I mean that in all sense of the word. Asterisks and all. It may seem unfair, but there have been many proven facts and polls that you are really arrogant/stupid. Here in Australia, we have a television show (Yes, TV! We dont live in the bloody stereotypical circumstance that most people seem to attach to Australians) called CNNNN. I'm not sure, but it may have been aired in other countries, I'm not sure where it is from exactly. In this television show, they had a poll with American 'citizens' on the streets. Simple questions such as 'What is a Mosque', 'What religion are the Israelis', 'Should Saddam Hussein be punished for 9 11' were answered with such blatant stupidity that i found it hard to beleive that you think of yourselves as the rulers of the Western World. A Mosque was said to be an insect (when it is infact a house of worship), The israelis were said to be muslims (they are Jewish) and they ALL said that he should pay for the destruction of the Twin Towers! He didn't have anything to DO With the Twin Towers!!

I dont want to be labled as a racist kangaroo rooting Ozzy outback yobo, but come on. It is there under our noses. The Untied States of Arrogance have been too quick and too heavy fisted to look at the problem as a whole. Which problem? Any, just pick one.

The Melbourne Comedy Gala which aired just last Thursday had a very funny man named Danny Bhoy, a scottish comedian, doing an act for the benefit of all. He said that George Dubya had to pretend to be a cowboy when he reached his office and no one was around. He was half right. He does like to be a cowboy, but not in private. He voiced it by destroying the majority of 2 Arab countries. Thanks Georgey baby, they are REALLY thanking you now for your liberation. Now, if you'll kindly give them back their friends and family, their homes and business', then they'll hapily get back to grovelling at the US' feet. You silly Tw*t.

Sometimes I think the whole world would be better if he HAD choked on that pretzel.

[ April 08, 2003, 09:20: Message edited by: Baezlebub ]

 

Baezlebub,
you would probably get the same results when asking aussies the same questions. Just speak fast and surprise average people and success will be kinda guaranteed.

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The amazing point abbout the US is their sense of mission. Democracy and the american way of life are the way to go! Everywhere in the world.
But now, when only promoting the best values of the western world, why is it that the US are so unpopular in the arab world?

France, germany, japan and britain - china and russia even, are happy to sell their arms, cars and mashines to the people in the middle east and giving them their money back by buying their oil.

The US don't stop there.

They aren't satisfied until the arabs get Coca-Cola, McDonalds, Starbucks (someone has to tell those backward arabs how to make coffee), the Playboy and other blessings of the american way of life, something that's about en par with the constitution in Bush JR's ranking.
So IMO the US'es massive cultural influence - and economical influence - as popular culture always is economical - is what pisses the arabs off. Why? A few thoughts:

Most arab countries are ruled by people with western education - Saddam is about the lonely exception beeing a stinking shepard who managed to take control by cunning and ruthlessness (like, for example - change the "stinking shepard" to "weird nerd", Bill Gates ). Usually the US would be impressed by such a "from dishwasher to billionaire" career ....

In the arab countries small elites rule, but don't represent the people. So the current jordanian king barely speaks his own "native" language, arab. The decisionmakers in these autocratic countries are miles away from their people. Their western education isolates them from them, while they make decisions for the rest of the people who lack that background.
The arabs have a centuries old tradition of unity of church and state - that's totally contrary to the western model of democracy and separation of state and church. So the model of democracy, acceptance-wise, is questionable there anyway.
Democracy, however, in arab countries is only good so long as it doesn't result islamists in parliament. And democracy is only so long supported by the US. That's what effectively killed democracy in the pro-western arab, US supported, countries in the middle east

It's not about envy of the evil mullahs, fearing for western freedom as a threat to their control. The conservative majority in arab countries, underprivileged and not allowed to participate in democratic decisionmaking processes (because there are none), sees the incoming cultural "symbols", mainly from the US, as a sign of their supression, that's the most visible way the US influence on their gvt's shows for them. The ever spectacular US culture does not pass unnoticed, take McDonalds, Madonna or Michael Jackson

The arabs may hate the US - but not more than they hate their governments. The US influence wouldn't be there if someone had asked them - because the american way of life isn't quite conform with islam's view on life.
That's shows probably Islamism's worst trait: It's a trade obstacle*

*Germans suffered from that too: There's a classic german law case about "loss of basis of business" - after the islamic revolution in iran the new gvt suddenly prohibited export of beer to iran ....

 

I hate USA because(in no special order):

1. They are ignorant

2. They think that much money is important

3. They never know when they should stop.


I don't have much time on this cpu so I must stop but I will be back.