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Tassadar, I just wanted to point out a flaw in your 5 step theory to end terrorism. In step one you state that we need to find out what the terrorists hate, and in step 2 we need to stop doing it. Well I'll tell you what the terrorists hate and that is the American way of life, the freedom and oppertunity that we have in our country. This is what seperates the western world from the oppression of countries in the Middle East. To give up ONE freedom of the Constitution is to admit defeat. We are a nation founded on the concept of freedom and we will never give this up.

Thus, step 2 and 3 of your theory will not work. The rights and protections that the western world offer their people cannot be eliminated or the terrorists have truly won the stuggle between liberty and hatred.


[This message has been edited by Voltric (edited September 17, 2001).]

 

first of all a well written post Lord Moeken. :thumbs up:. I don't like long post but I feel I have to this time.

Last night I couldn't sleep. So I watched an american news program. And it really made me ponder quite a lot.

Some of the key thoughts I got during the night was: Terrorism can strike anywhere and with any means possible. So it is impossible to defend against. Not many of you may know that the german Anti-terrorism group recently solved a terrorist case supported by Bin Laden. The terrorist goal was none less than poisoning the european parlament.

I know many of us europeans find this scale of terrorism completely impossible, or should I say uncomprehendable. On one side I think that noone would do anything to harm my country, Denmark, So we should stay neutral and let everyone else fight their demons, but somehow I find this thought repulsive .I fear that with this huge blow on the US, many terrorist organisations have seen that it is possible to hit even giants. This can and will foster hope in their minds. Hopes that they can accomplish similar deeds both in US but also in Europe There are many terrorist organisations in the world, Bin Laden is but one. I see Bin Laden as not only a person but as an organisation. He supports branches in more than 60 countries. If he dies his money will only be distributed to other places. To make conventional warfare against him and his organisations is obsolete. Terrorism hides and eludes any military bombings. But what is there to do? should we give up. With the bombing of WTC and Pentagon they have gotten an injection full of spirit and willpower to last many years into the future. Should we just let them fly planes into US? should we just let them poison Our european parlament? is this our future? living in an surreal dangerzone?

I dont think US stands a chance at all. alone. The only way I see it is to keep stressing, infiltrating and disrupting every level of any terrorist organisation. Even by saying this I admit that US stands powerless against terrorism. If we shall have any hope of removing the threat to not only our european parlament but to our business cities and other political buildings, we must stand together. If terrorism can just find sanctuary in one european city, they both can and will do it. A new milestone was reached by terrorrist when they bombed the mighty US. it gave them hope. Whichever milestone they'll plant next we can only fear.

I sincerly hope this made some understanding, both to the US people on the board who wants to bomb and make warfare, and to those of us europeans and oriental people who hopes we are considered Neutral.

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 17, 2001).]

 

voltric - i have thought about your opinion and it is valid but it cannot instigate per se such a violent attack of such magnitude by any group or religion because of the simple fact that they do not agree with the american way of life (you're attacking america for godssakes) - such an attack must be prompted by a lot of hate and that can only stem from serious direct interference with their way of life or belief(s) and i do not think they watch some news and go: "argghhh! they frustrate me with their way of life! i kill like the damned now!"

there are a lot of problems in the middle east with iraq, libya, iran, and afghanistan, etc and they have a lot to do with the US suppressing them, therefore they evidently rebel

i am loathe to scroll through all the posts in this topic, but someone mentioned something about leaving them the hell alone in the 1st place, and not caring about whether they self destructed or not because its not their problem - thats step 1

and when step 1 is underway, you take yourself out of the problem by not being part of it

but if they still persisted, you would find yourself supported 100% by all the countries to annihilate each and every one of these bastards, instead of the split support there is now

 

good point. it's like if you see a mosquito on someone's cheek, and you slap him to kill the mosquito, and he whacks you, we outsiders are kinda at a loss at whom to side. your intentions were good. but in a way you had no bussiness poking your nose into his problems. hmmmmmmmmm....

 

I agree that all life is precious, etc.

However, if these acts go unpunished, it WILL happen again. And again. It would be nice to kiss and make up, but when the only to satisfy someone is to commit suicide...it makes it a little difficult.

As far as a ground war in Afganistan. No prob. You forget, we trained those people. We trained them all. The US knows exactly what tactics they'll use, and where. There is only one thing that they had on us before: resolve. But now the playing fields have been levelled. I don't think that mass killing is the solution. But if it comes to that, I will not interfere.

Prepare to reap the whirlwind.

 

Exactly.

There's a lot of America-envy out there and a lot of resentment that we are, in fact, powerful and prosperous.

So now people on this board are taking advantage of the opportunity to scold America for being such a big player.

Well, we're sorry.

We're sorry that we spearheaded a drive into Nazi Germany that helped to liberate a pathetic country like Belgium that apparently was about to win the war all on its own.

We're sorry we liberated Kuwait when an evil man decided to take it over.

We're sorry we bitch-slapped Japan almost singlehandedly and liberated Korea and most of east Asia in the process.

We're sorry we give Israel enough aid to survive. We're sorry we offer to host peace talks in Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Kashmir, and every other trouble spot in the world. We're sorry for all the aid we gave to Europe to rebuild after WW2. We're sorry we keep stopping the spread of communism.

From now on, US foreign policy should be like Belgian foreign policy: we'll sit on on our ass and surrender meekly to everyone who happens to wander by. Kevlar, I'm sure you've got plenty of extra white flags sitting around your house from since Germany reunified. Why don't you send 260 million on over this way?

 

Shralp

I agree with some of the points, though, I still think US isn't that innocent.

C'mon, Kuwait, I don't think US would really give a damn if it wasn't because of the oil.

And about Germany, that was the most suicidal attack I've ever read about. It worked, but it might as well have failed.

But the thought of US is very weird indeed, personally I've been discussing US politics with some of my friends and we can never figure out how a nation could become so great. Thinking of gun issues and insurance policy, we could only decide we didn't want a system like US at all, though I respect US in the thought thath it seemingly works, I don't know how, and it will keep me wonder.


[EDIT]
You're right, not giving a damn is exaggerated, but I don't think one soldier or one missile would ever see the countryside



[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 18, 2001).]

 

There's a good chance that we wouldn't have been there if it weren't for oil, sure. But that doesn't change the fact that we were there and we did a good thing in kicking Iraq out. [Edited to add: And it's wrong to say that America wouldn't have given a damn without the oil. You still would have seen the US leading the way in UN condemnation, humanitarian efforts, and organized resistance.]

You can call Normandy a suicide charge if you wish, but it worked. Without it, all of Europe except maybe England would be speaking German or Russian right now.

What the US had done in creating a free society is indeed amazing. I'm not proud of that fact because I had nothing to do with it. I'm just grateful that it was done. I'm glad to see your positive reaction to it. I wish more foreigners were like you instead of the pathetic sort who try to delude themselves into thinking that America is NOT great, peaceful, prosperous, powerful, and good.

[This message has been edited by Shralp (edited September 18, 2001).]